Content outside DLS: a royal pain in the ...

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omber

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So..

I've been trying to get some route .. any route from outside DLS (and too much content thats on it for that matter) .. without success .. why?

Because half the assets are made by 3rd parties and usually only avaliable from those websites .. which again half the time don't work anymore (website down or other issues) or are in language I have no knowledge off... I understand that 3rd party content (freeware) can not be included as part of the route CDP file because of licensing .. or can it?

Either way .. maybe its time for Auran to redesign DLS atleast for next real installment in Trainz series (as in new graphics engine etc.) or if not, maybe we as users should get together and start our own download service, so that all the custom content could be brought together under one website for easier access...
 
That to me is a fairly good idea because Im tired of running around like a chicken with a head cut off trying to find some depenacy that I know I will never find.And if I do track it down. I either won't understand what the heck they are saying or the site isn't working or not even around anymore for that matter.
 
or if not, maybe we as users should get together and start our own download service, so that all the custom content could be brought together under one website for easier access...

Isn't that the whole idea of the DLS anyway???

Mike.
 
...that's the whole idea of having the content on a personal website...

8) old cool...

Some content creators want you to visit there website...

I think the Auran DLS is the most appropriate place for Trainz content, and if anyone has there own content, freeware or payware, they can feel free to sponsor it on their site.

However, the freeware, belongs on the DLS.
 
Ok true .. I just tried downloading a route from DLS that had all dependencies on DLS on April 22nd this year.

Result:

11 Dependenices have missing depedencies
5 Broken
137 Unknown <- :) This is the problem with DLS at the moment - assets go missing after a while ..
 
Most of these routebuilders, including myself, don't remember where they got the content they have in their inventory but hey if they can find it we can too. There's some really nice stuff on these third party sites including the european ones and other places. But seriously if someone needs to find a particular KUID all they need to do is post requesting the location if it can't be found doing a forum search.

Cheers

AJ
 
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Backyard

However, the freeware, belongs on the DLS.

Freeware belongs where the creator wants to put it. If and when you make content, if you want to put it on the DLS that is your decision, just as it is our decision to not put content there. It is called 'freedom of choice'.

According to CMP, there are now more than 80,000 items on the DLS, which could possibly explain the problems that are occurring.

Cheers

Narrowgauge
 
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Hi,

Only problem with outside content i have is that sometimes the link doesn't work anymore. I always make a readme where to find the outsite content(including the download link). But sometimes when i have a link and made a note in the readme. Suddenly the link doesn't exist anymore. This is realy frustrating. As a routebuilder you always have these problems.
The best thing that you could do is make a pack for all the outsite content of your route and setup a link. This would be realy a fine solution. But then you have always problems with the damned rights of content. I will never understand these rights because its freeware. I think the world is on a turning point. I think in future i can't make a picture of a building anymore because the builder can say, he this is my building and i did not give you permissian to make pictures of this building.
greetz laika :wave:
 
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laika

The main reason that assembling and linking to a zipped pack of content is discouraged is because immediately that is done the creator has lost contact with his creation. Ensuring that every hosted copy of his assets is updated then becomes almost impossible.

It is always possible for the route creator to ask for permission to make a bulk pack, and probably most third party creators would agree to doing this.

Cheers

Narrowgauge
 
I have been thinking the same thing, it shouldn't really be that hard to make a better content system. Also, why does it keep downloading THE ENTIRE database every time I open it? Can't it just store a "database last updated" field and then fetch only info about _new_ assets...

And the scanning of the current content? Sloooow :(

Also the CMP keeps doing unpredictable rubbish, like suddenly freeze when doing NOTHING... And it has lots of cosmetic bugs, like the download helper... if you re-sort the list while it's download, the progress bar will be updated for the entry that is at the same position as the current download was before the sorting. Etc.

Annoying. How old is the CMP? 5 years soon? Should have thought it would have been noticed and fixed...
 
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Backyard



... It is called 'freedom of choice'...

You're right, it is freedom of choice and it's going to by my freedom of choice not to download any content that's not on the DLS. It's just not worth the hassle and complaints to use content that's not on the DLS, no matter how good it is. Just my humble opinion. When I was new to Trainz, I downloaded content from 3rd party sites and now it's just too difficult to figure out whether my downloaded content is from the DLS or from a 3rd party.:(
 
So..

I understand that 3rd party content (freeware) can not be included as part of the route CDP file because of licensing .. or can it?

Hi, guys.

We at IBTZ have adopted an eclectic position. When releasing a route we also publish a list of items and their possible whereabouts. Furthermore, if that fails we keep public and/or private "Technical Service" to help users locate missing assets.

For instance, just an sample not to teach (or 'preach') anybody at all. ;)

http://web.ibertrainz.eu/secciones/modulos/empacadora_chatarra.html

Specific Forum Thread:

http://foro.ibertrainz.eu/index.php?topic=12268.0

General Sub-forum for missing kuids:

http://foro.ibertrainz.eu/index.php?board=25.0

Private "Technical Service":

ibertrainz[at]ibertrainz.com

But, anyway, IMHO the DS is a very useful and still valid source for sharing. But surely it shouldn't (and it is not) be the only one, just in case... ;)

Have a good day, guys.

Alberte :)
 
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Hi, guys.

We at IBTZ have adopted an eclectic position. When releasing a route we also publish a list of items and their possible whereabouts. Furthermore, if that fails we keep public and/or private "Technical Service" to help users locate missing assets.

For instance, just an sample not to tech anybody at all. ;)

http://web.ibertrainz.eu/secciones/modulos/empacadora_chatarra.html

Specific Forum Thread:

http://foro.ibertrainz.eu/index.php?topic=12268.0

General Sub-forum for missing kuids:

http://foro.ibertrainz.eu/index.php?board=25.0

Private "Technical Service":

ibertrainz[at]ibertrainz.com

But, anyway, IMHO the DS is a very useful and still valid source for sharing. But surely shouldn't (and it is not) be the only one, just in case... ;)

Have a good day, guys.

Alberte :)

Indeed you did, with links .. which dont work.
 
Indeed you did, with links .. which dont work.

Which links? The ones on the assets? Are you blaming the creators of freeware routes for outside links not working? IMHO I think you ask for too much, giving very little. ;)

Anyway, most of freeeware route creators are kind enough to lead you to the right place. Just a question of taking or leaving it. ;)

Thank you for your comment.

Have a good day.

Alberte :)
 
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So..

I've been trying to get some route .. any route from outside DLS (and too much content thats on it for that matter) .. without success .. why?

Because half the assets are made by 3rd parties and usually only avaliable from those websites .. which again half the time don't work anymore (website down or other issues) or are in language I have no knowledge off... I understand that 3rd party content (freeware) can not be included as part of the route CDP file because of licensing .. or can it?

Either way .. maybe its time for Auran to redesign DLS atleast for next real installment in Trainz series (as in new graphics engine etc.) or if not, maybe we as users should get together and start our own download service, so that all the custom content could be brought together under one website for easier access...

There are a number of issues here.

First there is now a thread of layouts that have been tested to see that all items are on the DLS. I strongly suggest you restrict yourself to these.

Second if a layout is uploaded to the DLS with a dependency that is not on the layout then an email is sent to the creator requesting a copy be put up on the DLS. This content can be put on in such a way as to be not visible to the end user but will download as a dependency. In other words if I upload a layout that is missing something on the DLS then there is a strong possibility it will be there shortly.

Third some people have great difficulty getting things to upload to the DLS. If you think it's easy try creating some content from scratch especially the config.txt file and try uploading it sometime. The new error checking can be hard on some people. I think I've helped at least a dozen or so people when they have had problems and even then there was one who eventually just gave up. He had previously uploaded using TRS2004 but TRS2006 defeated him.

Fourth not everyone's first language is English now mix in some of three and the problem gets compounded.

Fifth in order to keep a sense of identity some sites like to keep their own web sites with their own content on. There many reasons for this but it happens. It might be easier if some one documented how to link an asset on the web site to the DLS. We have a web site and it's on my list of things to do and it's been there quite a long time.

Sixth some people just like creating content the GMAX side, unless they work with some one who figures out the red tape they just ignore what they aren't interested in. One I know of has an artistic background, creates some very good looking items but really doesn't like to worry about the red tape side at all.

Seventh have you ever tried to create a route with just DLS content on it? It's actually quite difficult unless you delete all the content you have then redownload everything afresh from the DLS. Not that many people are prepared to do that. Remember many routes can take two years or more to build in that time items that were not on the DLS quite often end up there.

Fortunately some beta testers are kind enough to set up their machines to identify which content is not on the DLS. Then the creator can search the DLS for suitable replacements. Have you volenteered your services as a beta tester recently? I think Robin_hoods was looking for beta testers of a trolley bus route very recently. According to his thread on the forum he got one volenteer. The more beta testers check the route before uploading usually the better the final product.

Cheerio John
 
I can not blame creators of routes for 3rd party content which went missing because website outages or others .. but this is just the problem .. trying to get a route to work these days is too much like a job .. spending entire day to try to find the stuff thats missing...

As for individual creators wanting you to visit their website .. thats good but what if the website is in French or German .. Great for the French or German members but what about the rest of us?

John, in regards to do the "All Content for this Layout is on DLS" thread - route that had all of it on 22nd April has 137 missing dependencies ...
 
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Great for the French or German members but what about the rest of us?

Omber, my trainzy friend,

That's what is good of this community... membered by not only English speaking trainzers. Other speakers can lead you to the right place at the right word. ;)

Alberte :)
 
I have found that having to search for 3rd party content can actually be a fascinating experience.

There is such a wealth of information to be found in the big wide webworld, and a plethora of absolutely incredible content, which I would never have found if I had not be searching for something else.

And if you don't want to ask one of our overseas friends for help in their native language, there is always Alta Vista's Babel Fish translator (not perfect, I know, but very helpful).

I would never have found half of the content I have if I had not had to go looking for a couple of missing dependancies!

Cheers,
Neil.
 
Here are three suggestions to alleviate this problem:

1. The tag contact-website in config.txt is only good if it has the latest contact and in many cases has no reference. I suggest that the user profile at auran be expanded to show contact-website. If they use DLS then use it, but show all sites where their content can be found. There are about 700 creators that have created about 80% of Trainz content.

2. In the good old days there were some DLS links from the asset to external sites. What happened to them? Priority should be given to the 2000+ that CMP shows as missing dependencies.

3. There is already a website that shows repairs and has the ability to link to external websites for missing items. That is TARL at www.trainzhaven.com. Steve Forget is currently getting it reset up on a professional webhost site after being affected by an electrical storm. It already provides many thousands of solutions to the CMP RedX faults and eventually will have 98% coverage of these. Like everyone else, we have difficulty tracking down the missing items. All it needs is for you to enter the information on the TARL database.

Could I make a final plea to those who have their assets on an external website in a non-english language. Many of these sites do not identify the assets by kuid number, and you end up DLing the whole website trying to find what you want. We may not be able to read your language, but there are two things that we do know. The word Download and the kuid number.
 
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