Class 220/221's "Voyagers" or "Vomiters" ?

[Neil_1997]

hi i had a great day @ harrow and wealdstone station yesterday and saw many different trains e.g. Pendolino's, Voyagers/Vomiters London Midland 360 Desiro's and freightliner green class 58. Also when i was on the footbridge a pendolino THRASHED past, the bridge was vibrating and everything lol.
But are virgin 221/220's called Voyagers or Vomiters?
Thanks,

Neil

 

[shaneturner12]

The class 220/221 trains are called 'Voyagers' even though they have been known to be called other things depending on their speed at the time (they are operated by Virgin Trains (mainly class 221) and CrossCountry(mainly class 220)) - sorry if I have missed the point at all. (Just to let you know, the London Midland desiro trains are class 350 (from what I last saw, which was at Birmingham International and Birmingham New Street)

 

[Joe_T]

hi i had a great day @ harrow and wealdstone station yesterday and saw many different trains e.g. Pendolino's, Voyagers/Vomiters London Midland 360 Desiro's and freightliner green class 58. Also when i was on the footbridge a pendolino THRASHED past, the bridge was vibrating and everything lol.
But are virgin 221/220's called Voyagers or Vomiters?
Thanks,

Neil

Forgive me but unless you know something the rest of us don't you didn't see a Freightliner class 58 If it was Diesel it would have been a class 66 but if it was an AC Electric loco it would have been either a class 86 or class 90. Also London Midland don't operate class 360's it would have been a class 350. And please explain to me how a pendo can thrash on electric motors? Thrash is what you get out of a class 37/class 47/class 55/class 56/ HST with a valenta engine in

 

[Glenethson]

Forgive me but unless you know something the rest of us don't you didn't see a Freightliner class 58 If it was Diesel it would have been a class 66 but if it was an AC Electric loco it would have been either a class 86 or class 90. Also London Midland don't operate class 360's it would have been a class 350. And please explain to me how a pendo can thrash on electric motors? Thrash is what you get out of a class 37/class 47/class 55/class 56/ HST with a valenta engine in

I think he means more whoosh than thrash.

 

[TTTEngine]

Vomiter? That can't be right.

 

[Joe_T]

Why can't vomiter be right? They make most people throw up due to the smell of super heated crap due to the exhaust pipes running along the rentention tanks.

 

[nexusdj]

Plastic rubbish !! They are good at getting you somewhere quicker than a loco hauled set but whoever decided that 4 cars equate to the capacity of a 7 car Mk2 set wants sending back to school for a crash course in basic maths !!

They should all of been built as 7 cars (XC) and 9 cars (west coast) with 1 of the cars fitted with Pantographs and a transformer for 25 kv usage .

 

[Neil_1997]

well how would i have known it wasnt a class 58 i was on the overground while it went the other direction at speed and the pendo thrash....down here in the north of london "thrash" has many meanings while train experts may take it a different way . and the london midland 350 was an innocent typo. btw 350's look similar to 360's cos of their headlamps but 350s have the slam door thingy at the front

cheers

 

[Wessex_Electric_Nutter]

btw 350's look similar to 360's cos of their headlamps but 350s have the slam door thingy at the front

cheers

Gangway, its used to allow passengers to walk through the train, when there are short platforms, trolley usage, conductor usage, etc. The 2 units must have gangways at the ends they are being joined at for obvious reasons. BR Did try one gangwayed end and one streamlined end with one of their DMUs, the Class 126, but operationally, proved a nightmare as the units going out, were never guaranteed to come back the right way round.

 

[Joe_T]

well how would i have known it wasnt a class 58 i was on the overground while it went the other direction at speed and the pendo thrash....down here in the north of london "thrash" has many meanings while train experts may take it a different way . and the london midland 350 was an innocent typo. btw 350's look similar to 360's cos of their headlamps but 350s have the slam door thingy at the front

cheers

Quick tip on loco/unit identification look at the first 2 or 3 digits 2 digits for loco and 3 for units as they give the class identification

 

[Henners]

i believe that one of the types of pendolino/voyager trains are tilt trains, and when they were first released, people had fears that they would cause people to vomit, which was common amongst people who use the APT when it was taking part in trials in the 70s/80s (?). this maybe where you heard it from, but i can't be too sure, as there have been no reported problems with the Voyagers.

 

[Paulsw2]

APT-P when it ran in the early 80s was meant to be the prototype designed to iron out precisely these kind of issues related to running tilting trains in general passenger use. However, British Rail, under pressure from the Government, rushed the programme forward too soon and then lost faith in it when there were the inevitable teething troubles. They abandoned development and handed Britain's world lead in tilting train technology to others. Very sad.

Paul

 

[wholbr]

Hi There.
I don't know what all the grumbling is about I've traveled on the Voyagers many times and found them to be an excellent train. They are very quiet, smooth and comfortable. In the four car setup they are able to accommodate rural stations better than the eight or 10 car 130s as they don't have both ends of the consist overhanging the platform which can be very dangerous for people getting off the train.

The four car voyager fits snugly onto my local stations at Weston-super-Mare, Yatton and Nailsea here in Somerset. So I give the Virgin Voyagers a big thumbs-up being thankful for the many comfortable rides they've given me having never felt travel sick or seen anybody feeling travel sick on them, and never smelt diesel fumes on them either

Some people you just cannot please.
Bill

 

[D9007_Pinza]

Paul, I've heard a legend, I'm not sure if it's true, but on a run of the APT-P for the press, several members of the press reported suffering motion sickness through the journey with British Rail's response to the claims being that the said persons had simply helped themselves to too much of BR's "hospitality" cough*grog*cough. Is there any truth to this?

 

[pfx]

Paul, I've heard a legend, I'm not sure if it's true, but on a run of the APT-P for the press, several members of the press reported suffering motion sickness through the journey with British Rail's response to the claims being that the said persons had simply helped themselves to too much of BR's "hospitality" cough*grog*cough. Is there any truth to this?

I too have seen this in print. It was a book on 80's motive power and cropped up in the section on future developments. Could easily have been a PR attempt to cover the truth though...

 

[wholbr]

Paul, I've heard a legend, I'm not sure if it's true, but on a run of the APT-P for the press, several members of the press reported suffering motion sickness through the journey with British Rail's response to the claims being that the said persons had simply helped themselves to too much of BR's "hospitality" cough*grog*cough. Is there any truth to this?

Hi Everybody.
Yes it was true that one of the big problems with the original APts was motion sickness caused by the tilting of the train. I am not sure but I think they actually went into commercial trials with paying passengers on board and this is when the problem really came to the press attention.

However, it was far more than motion sickness that eventually led to their withdrawal and scrapping. There were enormous problems with general unreliability much of which centered around tilting action of the train. I believe there where also major problems with the advanced diesel engines which lead British rail to decide thats enough.

As stated, it was a shame really as perhaps a bit more patience and finance in the project could have produced a world leader at that time. But like everything it's a question of where you draw the line, and in this case the line lead to the scrap yard.

Bill

 

[pfx]

APT-Ps did indeed make it into service but only for a short while between Glasgow and London. I remember seeing them on a couple of occassions on the WCML.

I'm not sure that problems with diesel engines contributed in any way though as the APT-Ps were electric powered although originally, the intention was that they should be gas turbine powered as diesels were too heavy.

 

[wholbr]

I'm not sure that problems with diesel engines contributed in any way though as the APT-Ps were electric powered although originally, the intention was that they should be gas turbine powered as diesels were too heavy.

Hi pfx
You could be right about the diesel engines as I am going completely by memory. However I thought that some diesel versions were produced due to the failure in development of the turbine engine.

I felt I read that for a short time trials were held on the East Coast mainline with the diesel version, but like I said I am going completely by memory and could be wrong. However, having said all that they were well in front of their time and could have been a world beater.

interesting topic from memory
all the best
bill

 

[pfx]

wholbr, you're partially correct on the diesel engine. The initial unit, APT-E was a gas turbine powered unit. When it came to the APT-P, the the gas turbines were no longer manufactured and diesels were deemed too heavy for the purpose.

As I recall, there were two central power cars with a shared pantograph and no passenger access between the two ends of the train. The APT never ran on the ECML though as it wasn't electrified until 1991 and the APT was scrapped long before.

The 225 sets that did eventually run on the newly electrified ECML (and still do thankfully, another success story like the 125 hopefully) were heavily influenced by work done on the APT.

Such a pity that the APT units were rushed. Typical BR of the 80s as they did such a lot of ground breaking work.