China to USA....

So - - a Bering Sea Tunnel instead of a Bering Sea Bridge? Impossible no - - - improbable yes. These ideas get batted around every few years. Both would be engineering nightmares. The tunnel would avoid all the weather and climate problems but bring up geological problems.

Does anyone really think the traffic could ever recoup the cost of construction? I doubt the traffic would even keep up with the cost of maintenance.

Be an interesting ride though the scenery would leave a bit to be desired when in the tunnel, lol.

Ben
 
Did you forget that the earths tectonic plates go right through the area ... Mainland Alaska to Adak experience hundreds of not thousands of earthquakes per year, and Alaska has 23 active volcano's ... severe geothermal activity on the Alaska - Pacific Rim plates ... Not in your lifetime !
 
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Hi Cascade:

Yes and no. The straits are at least 1200 miles north of the Aleutian chain which of course includes Adak. As you said they are part of the Pacific rim of fire including volcanos and (yup) lots of earthquakes. The straits themselves get earthquakes of course - everywhere on the planet does to varying degrees but not to the extent of the Aleutian chain. I live in Florida and we get 2 or 3 a year. So small though that unless you are a geologist monitoring a seismograph you will never know one occurred.

Would they be a potential problem to a Bering tunnel - of course. Even the Chunnel between France and England is subject to them as the land in that area rebounds from the weight the ice sheets from the last ice age.

But does it really matter? This is yet another pie-in-the-sky "dreamland" project that should be filed in the fun-for-thought folder but not taken too seriously for a goodly number of years until technology catches up with the realities of the project.

I certainly agree with your "not in your (my) lifetime" statement but its not absolutely impossible - just incredibly improbable.

Ben

BTW - I've stated making items for the EBT again if your interested.
 
Ben.

In reply to your thoughts on the sceney, They could use a plexi-glass type material so you could sea the ocean depths and sea life.
But then it would have to be strong enough to withstand the enormouse pressures of the sea depths.

But as you and cas have said "not in our life time...
 
Actually the Bering Straits between big and little Diomede Islands (where the bridge or tunnel would have to go) is quite shallow. It was a land bridge for the folks who crossed between Asia and the America's during the last ice age (the real one - - - not the movies, lol).

The article seems to indicate the RR would go between China and North America. Did they forget that neck of the woods on the western side of the straits belongs to Russia - not China?

As I said above:
Impossible - - - no
Improbable - - - yes
Economical profitable - - - never

Still its fun to speculate (and free).

Ben
 
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Some years ago, an all-rail route from Alaska to the Lower 48 & beyond was calculated to be $10 billion. Add 10 years and probably 20% more traffic over the existing system, and you get the picture that it's a beautiful dream. But back then, that would require essentially every railroad deferring matinence on everything for about 20 years to come up with the cash to build it outright, at the pricetag then quoted.

Government funded? Don't get me started. The M1 Streetcar project in Detroit initially denied all Federal funding simply because the private investors knew what sort of hassle it would be to get any cash out of the gov. 3 miles of embedded lightly used rail is nothing compared to 300 miles of heavy-duty extreme weather all-terrain railroading that the Alaska connection would need.

As for the Bering Strait super connection, how about a floating bridge? Never mind the rewritten standards to ensure interoperability and inevitable shortage of capacity that can't pay for itself.
 
Teleportation would be easier in the long run, lol.

Seriously though any method is rife with engineering, geological, climate, weather, political, and financial problems to the point of pretty much being a never project.

The saddest thing about a RR from the lower 48 to Alaska is: It could be done - - - it just won't be done.

Wonder if the folks in Russia said the same things about the Trans-Siberian RR? Even if they did you will notice it was built and today is the main artery from Moscow to Vladivostok (Russian Trainzers please forgive my spelling if its wrong). Anyone think a RR from the lower 48 To Alaska wouldn't end up the same (an almost irreplaceable lifeline between areas)?

Ben
 
And what about United States Customs inspections ?

All passengers passports, health certificates, and goods, would have to be inspected, x ray, radioactive scanned, and OK'd for admission into the US and Canada.
 
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Its already done on the Alcan Highway on an individual vehicle basis. On a train it just gets done all together at each border.

How is it done on the WP&Y? It crosses the border.

Ben
 
A bridge for the strait has already been designed and budgeted,{ many in fact} and it isn't the biggest problem facing this dream. It the two to three thousand miles of road and track to a bridge or tunnel.{With other hard challenges} And where they originated and terminated . From what I recall it was deemed possible, but costly and as to the infrastructure to it. Making it highly unlikely to ever be done. The model for this was actually build in Japan, on a much smaller scale. A bridge to link africa to europe is based on this design also. As a builder myself, never say never. It get our hair up, regardless of practically:D.
 
As I understand it the Europe to Africa bridge would be located where Gibraltar is and only needs to be a few (2 or 3?) miles long. An engineering challenge yes - impossible no. Possible with todays technology I'd think. The straits are 800 or 900 feet deep (possibly more) so a tunnel is pretty much a non starter. The bridge might even get built (and I hope it does). Both ends of the bridge exit into economically developed areas so the bridge might (in time) pay for itself.

The Asia to Alaska tunnel or bridge falls into a considerably different category due to size. The Gibraltar bridge is longer then existing suspension bridges but not tremendously so. The Asia to Alaska structure is. At least an order of magnitude greater if not more. To me the bridge concept has too many problems that a tunnel solves. Only cost and (potential) earthquakes are common.

Both ends of a bridge or tunnel end in no where land. No economically developed areas what so ever. As stated above its 1000's of miles to them on either side. The thing would never ever pay for itself (not even close).

But is still fun to yak about lol.

Ben
 
Who (how many people) would really want to travel from AK to China/Russia anyway ? :hehe:

A cheap way to import Chinese Bird Clocks for the Dollar Store, and Nike sneakers ... lol :o

Maybe we could all go on a (one way) sightseeing train trip to beautiful downtown N Korea, and get thrown in a prison dungeon, suspected of being a spy, for taking photographs of RR trains ?

And lets all go on a wild and adventurous transcontinental train trip vacation to Morocco, and get some braised yak stomachs, and BBQ'ed scorpions.

While we're at it why can't we build a Chunnel from S Africa/New Zealand to Antactica ... so we can all go pet the penguins, and ride the Antactican Rwy, Is 5 miles long ... Do Da, Do Da

AHSRS.PNG


When penguins attack: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Haxy5PvCuk

When penguins fly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IPazA9Lxks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzhDsojoqk8
 
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The proposed bridge of the gibraltar strait is based on the plans most likely to be attempted in Alaska.{ if ever} But there are about 5 plans that were actually consider feasible with today's technology. And a tunnel doesn't need to sit on the bottom sea floor, submerged rail and road tunnels are now being proposed for the mediterranean and China. Think suspension bridge under the water is the only way I can describe these designs for deep water. But again these assumes high speed rails are build to make faster travel times. And In Europe and China this has slowed, in the US it's only proposed. Some of the techniques of construction are now being tested in Germany, China and US. The Ten billion number is low from what I've read. And any attempt would more likely a coaptive arrangement. {again not likely in today } Just my to sents:D
 
All that money for a silly tunnel could solve worldwide starvation many times over. In the time it'd take to build the novelty, perhaps a cure for AIDS can already be found.
 
Of all the projects mentioned above I feel only two have any meaningful chance of being built.
1. The Gibraltar Bridge.
2. A RR from the lower 48 to somewhere in Alaska (Anchorage most likely).

A suspension bridge is not impossible to span the straits of Gibraltar. Longer then any in existence yes but not tremendously so. The technology to build it almost certainly exists today. Justification on the other hand might be a but iffy.
A tunnel in the same location has the problem of depth. At least 1000 feet below sea level. Digging it is not the problem- operating it is (or I'd think it is). How will they handle the increased air pressure at 1000 or more feet below sea level? Airlocks, lol?
The Chunnel isn't deep enough for air pressure to be problem (or I don't think it is).

A RR to Alaska. Yes it would cost an absolute fortune and (initially) go through nothing other then miles and miles of miles and miles but so did the trans-continental RRs in the US. Development followed them and would along the RR to AK.
All it takes is politicians with enough foresight to see the advantage rather to only see as far ahead as the next election (I'm not holding my breath, lol).

As for a Bering Strait bridge/tunnel. Does anyone really think politicians would pony up enough $$$ to build it? No one there = no votes there = no $$$ there.

Food for thought:
How about a bridge or tunnel connecting the north and south islands of New Zealand? I wouldn't be at all surprised if it wasn't possible but isn't that a earthquake prone area?

Ben
 
For the most part, I agree with all you say Ben. But the proposed bridge for the strait of Gibraltar is in fact a suspension bridge design. As three of the 5 designs for Alaska. If I can find the artist rendition I'll post it here. And the tunnels of which I am referring, don't go under the sea floor. There is a new untested design that has the rail or road 100 feet to 150 below the surface. Again I can't adequately describe this, but it most resemble a underwater suspension bridge. Again if I can find a pic I'll post.:) most impressive.

Regardless I've alway thought it would be interesting to have concept designs in trainz. For rail and infrastructure.:D

Matt
 
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