Broadway Limited SD40-2 Question.

[magickmaker]

By god that's a mouthful!

Ok, here's the deal. I recently (with Trains 2010 down, I had no choice really) started rebuilding my HO pike. As part of this, I picked up a handful of trains, with this REALLY REALLY REALLY pretty SD40-2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZ1YWmMH4gQ Not mine, but it's the same type) from Broadway Limited.

Problem is, she keeps derailing on my pike and I can't figure out WHY!?

My pike has 22" and 30" curves, and one really detailed super elevated curve (yes I said SUPER ELEVATED) that took forever to do. Yet it seems that the 3 axle truck keeps getting in a bind. The papers say she should run on 18" curves, but apparently I'm doing something wrong here.

Anyone got ideas what's wrong?

 

[cascaderailroad]

Well your video has almost convinced me to leave Trainz, and go back to Model Railroading (Although, I don't know how I'm going to fit the Horseshoe Curve, BC Kicking Horse Pass, Enola Yard, Picrairn Yard route(s) in my basmaent). I wish Trainz didn't have such lame sound effects.

I did find some cool Trainz loco's on DLS that have really different engine sounds, bells & whistles, which are a vast improvement over default Auran sound effects.

18" Radius in HO is the minimum, and 22"-24"-30"-36" are preferable. Most model RR clubs use much larger than 36" radius. But 24" is pretty good as a standard. Perhaps there are some wires, of plastic flash, or something is keeping the truck from swivling. Perhaps some more lead weights on the nose above the derailing trucks would help it track right, and stop rail climb-over ?

I love Model Railroading

 

[magickmaker]

I've got it running now, though it's only a stop gap measure until I can figure out the real problem. I regauged my front and rear axles of each truck so they're slightly under gauge. However, that's not the right answer, I know, so it's just till I can check the engine out.

I'll check for flash and all, and may be persuaded, once I get all the cork roadbed down, to take a video of it. Though the route is only a 4X8, it's going to be something of a mix of a timesaver route, and a freelance railroad. I do have plans for expansion in the future, but this part is the fun one.

Having said that, it was that very loco that convinced me to change to the real thing. Well that and a major computer crash that ate my win vista.

 

[cascaderailroad]

Concerning model railroads...I prefer to build sectional layouts in HO, much like N Trak modules. As they are easy to break down & move, and can combine with your friends modules at train shows, or club get togethers.

Two hollow core bedroom doors, butted together, make an excelent portable layout sub-surface, as does 2" Pink foam board.

 

[Ronayne]

I have an Erie Lackawanna PA1, that always derailed at switches/points. It stopped eventually. :wave:

 

[Klinger]

Its a converted SDP40F. They derailed all the time


(thats a joke by the way)

 

[backyard]

...in shop...

Hello Majickmaker,

If your using an NMRA gauge to set the wheels, stay within what the gauge says!

You might take a long look at the trackwork. I had Athearn SD40-2's pulling a train on 18" radius. Most likely your using fab-track, but sometimes laying it you can develop a kink at a rail joint.

Also, check the lateral movement of the trucks, from side to side...if you need to remove frame to allow full movement, do so with a Dremel die grinder.

Check the driveline to the truck assemblies for snags, etc. It will tell you if there is a problem, often "flash" from being molded is a problem.

Another thing may be coupler movement from side to side. If flash is present you may have a problem there...I used Kadee couplers & had to check their ops on every car...any coupler can suffer the same problem. I doused mine with graphite to the coupler pocket as well as the face of the knuckle.

All your equipment should be checked for coupler swing, lubed with graphite, the truck screws only tight enough to not allow vertical movement(but allow carbody sway).

I just got an e-mail today on these from Broadway Ltd, I hope your able to make these your feature prime-movers on your route.

But realise, that eventually they will be back in the shop for adjustment, cleaning, lube & repair.

The best things about model-railroading!

 

[JCitron]

Hello Majickmaker,

If your using an NMRA gauge to set the wheels, stay within what the gauge says!

You might take a long look at the trackwork. I had Athearn SD40-2's pulling a train on 18" radius. Most likely your using fab-track, but sometimes laying it you can develop a kink at a rail joint.

Also, check the lateral movement of the trucks, from side to side...if you need to remove frame to allow full movement, do so with a Dremel die grinder.

Check the driveline to the truck assemblies for snags, etc. It will tell you if there is a problem, often "flash" from being molded is a problem.

Another thing may be coupler movement from side to side. If flash is present you may have a problem there...I used Kadee couplers & had to check their ops on every car...any coupler can suffer the same problem. I doused mine with graphite to the coupler pocket as well as the face of the knuckle.

All your equipment should be checked for coupler swing, lubed with graphite, the truck screws only tight enough to not allow vertical movement(but allow carbody sway).

I just got an e-mail today on these from Broadway Ltd, I hope your able to make these your feature prime-movers on your route.

But realise, that eventually they will be back in the shop for adjustment, cleaning, lube & repair.

The best things about model-railroading!

I've had that problem in the past. The front-most ties pulled out from under the rails and this caused the rails to go slightly out of gauge. It was enough to cause only certain locomotives to jump. I also had one that liked to pick the points on turn-outs. This was a random problem, that I could never find.

Another thing to check is the flange depth on the wheels. Sometimes the locos have faulty wheels that are not up to the NMRA flange depth standards. I had some older boxcars that were like this. They were actually too deep and would drag their wheels on the trackbed. The flange width can be an issue to with some track. If the wheel isn't wide enough, it will jump off on tight curves especially if the track is out of gauge and the flange is very narrow on the wheel.

And one more thing to check. Make sure the wheels don't have a damaged flange. I also had a very new locomotive that somehow ended up with a dented flange. This spot was actually like a gouge taken out of the wheel at this point, and the engine would periodically jump tracks particularly when the curve was tight.

John

 

[backyard]

don't take me wrong...

You have to treat the problem by staunchly adhering to NMRA specs...

The gauge can be used to check the trackwork. Even hand-laid track is of no use, if the gauge is wrong.

At times, we may "force-fit" track to fit, even though it is out of gauge...

What can I say to help?

If you customize the locomotive to your track, what happens if you take it to visit on other's routes?

Wheel width is not an issue. On model railroads, it's about flange width, checked by the NMRA gauge only.

The switch points for me were a Atlas track thing...I did what I could to assure proper guidance into the turnout.

It's just a matter of believing that no matter who made it, or what the loco is, it has to run to spec.

Brass, plastic, cast, whatever. Trackwork, point precision, just study the problem until you get an answer.

These things happen all the time on model railroads, fixing problems is the only way, glad you asked the question!

 

[Klinger]

I've got a bunch of old AHM equipment. Y6 class and so one.....man do they have big flanges. Can't run them on anything but code 100 track

 

[backyard]

Good 'ole AHM....

Yes, I know AHM..they had hard flanges to work with...

Several, or maybe at least one, had replacement wheels for the AHM line...

I never was able to buy an AHM steamer, but I have detailed several AHM Diesel-electric SD40 engines.

That stuff was so back in the day, we may be talking late '60's or early '70's.

At this point, your retro-fitting the locomotive, maybe even the motor...

I'll admit it, Atlas turnouts left much to be desired...but with attention to their function, they will last past the first electric solenoid switch motor.

Today, or at least yesterday, Poco switches produced the best result.

Back in my day, Atlas turnouts cost about $12. I bought about 17 total, powered or not(in the yard). Replacing a turnout that is a #6 with a #8 on the mainline, can really improve your realism...!

But I think the problem is either track-alignment or a break-in problem with the unit of question....none of these factors would stand in my way from proper "dependable" operations.

Thanks for debating my point, I am your "ROAD FORMAN of ENGINES!"

 

[magickmaker]

I'm taking it back to the guy that sold it to me monday. He's pretty certain that when the decoder was installed, the wiring is somehow getting in the way. Since I'd rather not make things worse, I'm letting it stay where it is for now.

As a side note, the NMRA and I don't have a very good relationship :hehe: But that's just my own personal experiences. I had something of a "run in" with some members a few years back and it left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth for the whole association.

 

[backyard]

Sounds good...

If a retailer agrees to help that's good too.

As for the NMRA, I too have witnessed bizarre behavior, but like the Boy Scouts, the skills learned can be useful for the rest of your life.

 

[magickmaker]

wasn't bizzare so much as hateful. Long story short I'm what some call (in modeling, not trainz) a master modeler. For a time I painted Warhammer 40k units and sold them, before moving onto hand painting (no airbrush) railroad cars and structures. Back in 96 when I was 19, I entered a car in a NMRA sponsored contest at a train show. I won, only to have my trophy taken away when they found that I wasn't an "adult". They treated me like I was less of a modeler than them, and all because I wasn't 21 yet. (the NMRA standard minimum for joining) Some things were said on the organizers part that accused me of entering something my father had done, and I pretty much became the laughing stock of that convention. So, I've not done anything with them since.

Having said that, the route itself is coming along nicely. I plan to expand it eventually, and have left a section of track on one end to allow for this. Though it's a 4X8, when I get most of the structures and construction of the route complete, it'll be hard to tell. I plan on having a view block in several locations, with the route raised to a chest height (bout 5' on me) to make it close to eye level.

 

[JCitron]

I'm taking it back to the guy that sold it to me monday. He's pretty certain that when the decoder was installed, the wiring is somehow getting in the way. Since I'd rather not make things worse, I'm letting it stay where it is for now.

As a side note, the NMRA and I don't have a very good relationship :hehe: But that's just my own personal experiences. I had something of a "run in" with some members a few years back and it left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth for the whole association.

I agree. Bring it back and let the "expert" deal with the problem.

I too have had issues with the NMRA. The guys up my way have the attitude like they're the next ones in line for president of CSX or something! What I really didn't like was the fact that the same people would always win no matter how many other really excellent models were entered by equally, if not better modelers. The clique attitude left me quite annoyed and when my subscription ran out, I left.

John