Anthracite Traction: Trolleys in Scranton and Wilkes-Barre, PA

[JCitron]

Old footage showing the traction operations in the Anthracite region of Eastern Pennsylvania. There are videos of the famous Laurel Line as well.

@BlackDiamond1964 you might be interested in this video!

It's sad seeing this because it was Standard Oil, Firestone and General Motors that did these systems like this in all in the same period in the late 1940s through the early 60s. This is happened all across the US at that time including in big cities such as Los Angeles, St. Louis and even in Boston where the current system was cut back substantially and replaced by busses.

 

[wreeder]

Thanks John for finding the video.

Here is a little know fact, Montgomery Alabama had the first electric trolley system in the world.

Alabama was home to world’s 1st electric trolley system

Montgomery, Ala., would be become the site of the Lightning Route.

www.al.com

William

 

[Lewiscc65]

I remember as a kid riding the trolley in Philadelphia. I would get off at the end, at the Bucks County border, and have to call my dad to pick me up.

 

[JCitron]

Thanks John for finding the video.

Here is a little know fact, Montgomery Alabama had the first electric trolley system in the world.

Alabama was home to world’s 1st electric trolley system

Montgomery, Ala., would be become the site of the Lightning Route.

www.al.com

William

I'll check that out, thanks. It was a surprise that appeared on YouTube after watching something else. This "creator" has a bunch of videos up there like this.

 

[JCitron]

I remember as a kid riding the trolley in Philadelphia. I would get off at the end, at the Bucks County border, and have to call my dad to pick me up.

Nice... Did they use PCC trolleys on the line?

 

[Lewiscc65]

Nice... Did they use PCC trolleys on the line?

Yes, the old ones, LOL. They then later changed to electric busses.

 

[mapsgame]

Wow! A complete historical documentation on film. I took the Grove Street Trolley to Newark Station daily for about 4 years to work at NJT Headquarters which was across the street from the station. My understanding is the trolly systems were already doing bankrupt by the time National City Lines began purchasing them. Cities required fares be kept at artificially low prices was the main reason for their financial demise. And this coupled with increased automobile ownership and congestion on streets caused their demise.

Thanks for posting this John!

 

[wreeder]

While that might have been true in some localities, John is correct that the oil industry, tire makers and automobile makers conspired to convince cities to abandon trolley systems en masse during the 40s, 50s and 60s in favor of busses. Of course, the unforeseen consequence was the rapid growth of the suburbs and the decline of the cities as jobs followed the people out of the cities.

 

[JCitron]

Yes, the old ones, LOL. They then later changed to electric busses.

The good old electric trolley buses that no one uses anymore except for a few cities. In Boston and suburbs, the MTA, later MBTA, did the same thing and the only lines left are in Cambridge, Belmont and Watertown. The rest of the system is gone. In Belmont on Waverly Road and Trapello Road, you used to be able to see where the tracks once were.

 

[JCitron]

Wow! A complete historical documentation on film. I took the Grove Street Trolley to Newark Station daily for about 4 years to work at NJT Headquarters which was across the street from the station. My understanding is the trolly systems were already doing bankrupt by the time National City Lines began purchasing them. Cities required fares be kept at artificially low prices was the main reason for their financial demise. And this coupled with increased automobile ownership and congestion on streets caused their demise.

Thanks for posting this John!

The films really are amazing and show how busy the systems were even up until they were closed. Those Osgood-Bradley trolleys were made not far from where I live in Amesbury, MA. Amesbury was once a horse carriage manufacturing center that also made automobile bodies and trolley cars. Today, all of that's gone and the railroad into the city is a NIMBY bike trail.

What you are saying is true in some areas such as those lines in my area. The Haverhill and Amesbury Street Railway and the Exeter Electric Street Railway operated on shoestring budgets as they provided services to the beaches and elsewhere. This system along with many others didn't survive the Great Depression.

It was the bigger systems such as the Eastern Mass. Street Railway that had a system that extended all over metro-Boston, up to Lowell, Lawrence, and elsewhere with branches into Southern New Hampshire that got wiped out. The famous Canobie Lake Park, for example, was built by the system. The park is still in existence today and the antique wood rollercoaster is still in operation. In addition to the street lines, they had a grade separated high speed line between Somerville and Stoneham that ran through the Fels, an area of woods and hills that's a giant woodland park. That line lasted until I-93 ate a big portion of it in the 1950s and that pretty much killed the system. The ROW still exists in places and so do some concrete arch bridges. South Policy Street was once the former ROW and there are still signs of the old trolley ROW in Methuen off Hampshire Street. The ROW becomes visible during the winter when the trees are bare.

In Boston, the head of the MTA was one of the people that got caught taking payola long after the damage was done. Under his leadership in the 1950s to early 60s, when the lines disappeared, he bustituted, or replaced them with trolley buses. In the process, the city lost a substantial chunk of its suburban lines. Gone are the lines to South Boston, Needham, via Blue Hill Avenue, lines in Cambridge, Watertown, Belmont, and Somerville. The trolley bus lines in South Boston were abandoned for dirty buses and so was the Blue Hill Avenue line. The Cambridge, Watertown, Belmont service has remained but who knows for how long because there's talk of removing those and putting in regular stinky buses.

Related to all this except modern times, what's the status of the Montclair to Newark light rail line? I heard that it's becoming a bike trail. I can't see riding a bike through parts of Newark as being safe, but then again, the bike trail groups will do whatever they can to rip up tracks.

 

[blueodessey]

While that might have been true in some localities, John is correct that the oil industry, tire makers and automobile makers conspired to convince cities to abandon trolley systems en masse during the 40s, 50s and 60s in favor of busses. Of course, the unforeseen consequence was the rapid growth of the suburbs and the decline of the cities as jobs followed the people out of the cities.

May I add, in Southern California White and Red Cars, approx 350 Miles from Sea to Mountains Etc, and we got sold the same bill of Goods, now we pay way to much to reinvent the Rail Wheels.

Shameful!

Los Angeles's Crenshaw Line, which includes short subway sections, clocks in at $165 million per mile. In Toronto, the Eglinton LRT line, which consists of almost a 50/50 split between surface and subway operation, is estimated to cost C$403 million per mile, which, as of May 2012, was about equal to:

Why does it cost so much to build things in America?

This is why the US can’t have nice things.

www.vox.com

 

[JCitron]

May I add, in Southern California White and Red Cars, approx 350 Miles from Sea to Mountains Etc, and we got sold the same bill of Goods, now we pay way to much to reinvent the Rail Wheels.

Shameful!

Los Angeles's Crenshaw Line, which includes short subway sections, clocks in at $165 million per mile. In Toronto, the Eglinton LRT line, which consists of almost a 50/50 split between surface and subway operation, is estimated to cost C$403 million per mile, which, as of May 2012, was about equal to:

Why does it cost so much to build things in America?

This is why the US can’t have nice things.

www.vox.com

The same thing happened in Boston!

In the late 1950s and early 1960s, the trolley lines from Cambridge to Somerville and Medford Square were torn up. I remember the trolleys to Union Square in Somerville, but they disappeared when I was very young.

Fastforward to 2019 and the lines were restored at a massive cost of something like $3 Billion or more. The lines no longer run on the street and instead follow the former Boston and Maine ROW from Lechmere Square to Somerville and then on to Medford on the rest of the branch. $3 Billion to replace something that existed before.

On the western side of the city, the Heath Street extension of the Huntington Avenue Line, which terminates at Cleveland Circle, used to continue to Jamaica Plain and terminate at Forest Hills. In the early 1980s, the line was mothballed using "a cost cutting move" as the excuse by bus-centric management. In the intervening years, long afterwards, the line was upgraded to the new LRV standards including signals using our taxpayer money, but excuse after excuse was used not to restore the service. Finally, in the early to mid-2000s, it was a case of either do it or get off the pot. The "T" stalled and stalled and ended up going to court where surprisingly, all of a sudden, the judge ruled in favor of the "T" allowing the transit agency to rip up the tracks and knock down the historic station! Yup, after all these years, we lost that line anyway.

During this battle, NIMBYs came out of the woodwork including those that didn't live in the area to complain that the trolleys "might" make noise, and worse attract the riff-raff from elsewhere. The word is some lawyers "hired" these people to come in and protest to shut down the trolley service, which is very possible because they did this up my way too for a new commuter station for exactly the same reasons.

Roughly a year or so later, we also lost the Watertown branch that also used to serve a carbarn located in Watertown Square that was used for heavy repairs. During a morning commute, traffic was tied up to the hilt due to the "T" moving some dead LRVs on Rt. 128 (I-95) to Newton to put them back on the tracks. The problem is they are too heavy for the local roads and the tracks they once ran on are no more. The service on this line was killed at the same time as the Forest Hills line was. When people pushed the "T" to restore service on this line, they ripped the tracks up in the same manner only without protests this time.

Again, there are some "studies" being done to restore service to these areas! I wonder how much it's going to cost this time.

 

[blueodessey]

The same thing happened in Boston!

In the late 1950s and early 1960s, the trolley lines from Cambridge to Somerville and Medford Square were torn up. I remember the trolleys to Union Square in Somerville, but they disappeared when I was very young.

Fastforward to 2019 and the lines were restored at a massive cost of something like $3 Billion or more. The lines no longer run on the street and instead follow the former Boston and Maine ROW from Lechmere Square to Somerville and then on to Medford on the rest of the branch. $3 Billion to replace something that existed before.

On the western side of the city, the Heath Street extension of the Huntington Avenue Line, which terminates at Cleveland Circle, used to continue to Jamaica Plain and terminate at Forest Hills. In the early 1980s, the line was mothballed using "a cost cutting move" as the excuse by bus-centric management. In the intervening years, long afterwards, the line was upgraded to the new LRV standards including signals using our taxpayer money, but excuse after excuse was used not to restore the service. Finally, in the early to mid-2000s, it was a case of either do it or get off the pot. The "T" stalled and stalled and ended up going to court where surprisingly, all of a sudden, the judge ruled in favor of the "T" allowing the transit agency to rip up the tracks and knock down the historic station! Yup, after all these years, we lost that line anyway.

During this battle, NIMBYs came out of the woodwork including those that didn't live in the area to complain that the trolleys "might" make noise, and worse attract the riff-raff from elsewhere. The word is some lawyers "hired" these people to come in and protest to shut down the trolley service, which is very possible because they did this up my way too for a new commuter station for exactly the same reasons.

Roughly a year or so later, we also lost the Watertown branch that also used to serve a carbarn located in Watertown Square that was used for heavy repairs. During a morning commute, traffic was tied up to the hilt due to the "T" moving some dead LRVs on Rt. 128 (I-95) to Newton to put them back on the tracks. The problem is they are too heavy for the local roads and the tracks they once ran on are no more. The service on this line was killed at the same time as the Forest Hills line was. When people pushed the "T" to restore service on this line, they ripped the tracks up in the same manner only without protests this time.

Again, there are some "studies" being done to restore service to these areas! I wonder how much it's going to cost this time.

Excellent info John and it parlays several grand shenanigans that have and still occur over here.

One thing is this High Speed Rail from somewhere to nowhere. If you lived in a state with 3 large Metropolitan City's plus one minor one, which ones would you connect a new High Speed Rail service, hint, think about Density per mile and where your Capital City for State Operations exists?

Lets just say, their equation and mine do not in anyway match up.

 

[JCitron]

Excellent info John and it parlays several grand shenanigans that have and still occur over here.

One thing is this High Speed Rail from somewhere to nowhere. If you lived in a state with 3 large Metropolitan City's plus one minor one, which ones would you connect a new High Speed Rail service, hint, think about Density per mile and where your Capital City for State Operations exists?

Lets just say, their equation and mine do not in anyway match up.

Indeed, Blue. I live out in the boonies, although in one of the larger cities in the Merrimack Valley. We have paltry service compared to the people elsewhere including other outlaying stations. They get hourly service, multiple route options, and everything else to make a nice commuter rail system. We get a bunch of trains in the morning, one or two during the day, and a bunch of terminating commuter trains at night. That's it, and should you miss the last train at 12:01 from Boston, it's a phone call, Uber, or cab ride home. The other areas got special kid-gloves treatment with their extra stations and service. We've asked for more trains but that lands on deaf ears.

Recently another line was removed, what was once a possible commuter line, with promises of new trains on it, in favor of a rail trail. I wouldn't ride my bike or walk in that area due to the unsavory population that live in that area. Seriously, there's a really high crime rate there with lots of drug and gang activity as well. Why?