Detailed Google Earth Images as Ground Textures via TransDEM

M

ModelerMJ

RubyTMIX, Basemapz
Hello all,

I've been using TransDEM to create the map for my prototypical route. Like many, I have Google Earth images that I would like to use to help me place items with some degree of accuracy. I was not, however, impressed with the way UTM tiles work in TS12. What I really wanted was a way to put a fairly decent representation of my Google Earth images directly on the terrain, and after quite a bit of experimentation I think have finally found a way to do so.

For more details, please see my post in the Screenshots forum. I put the meat of it there as it contains some good-size screen shots that I didn't think I was allowed to include in posts in this forum.

Regards,
-Mike
 
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ModelerMJ said:
Hello all,

I've been using TransDEM to create the map for my prototypical route. Like many, I have Google Earth images that I would like to use to help me place items with some degree of accuracy. I was not, however, impressed with the way UTM tiles work in TS12. What I really wanted was a way to put a fairly decent representation of my Google Earth images directly on the terrain, and after quite a bit of experimentation I think have finally found a way to do so.

For more details, please see my post in the Screenshots forum. I put the meat of it there as it contains some good-size screen shots that I didn't think I was allowed to include in posts in this forum.

Regards,
-Mike
Click to expand...

This is awesome. I posted a comment on the SC forum regarding a sticky.

Would you mind making a tutorial out of your method?

Thanks,

John
 
One thing to clarify (and sorry if you are already aware of this) Google Earth overlay images are copyright - if you look closely you can see a little watermark at periodic intervals - and should not be distributed with a finished route. Ideal as a guide to painting your terrain and placing objects etc., but should be removed prior to release.
 
Vern said:
One thing to clarify (and sorry if you are already aware of this) Google Earth overlay images are copyright - if you look closely you can see a little watermark at periodic intervals - and should not be distributed with a finished route. Ideal as a guide to painting your terrain and placing objects etc., but should be removed prior to release.
Click to expand...

Good point.

In my method the Google Earth image is painted onto the terrain using solid color textures, and is therefore sort of permanent. So, to your point, a route builder using this technique should be careful to ensure that (a) the Google Earth image is fully painted over by real textures and/or (b) if there are areas that remain untextured then the route builder should copy and paste blank baseboard over those areas to remove the Google Earth image.

Do you think that would satisfy this (very valid) concern?

Regards,
-Mike
 
Easier still! If you're using Transdem I believe there is a function to remove the actual Transdem textures from a route, therefore in the process also removing any vestiges of the GE image.
 
i dont think that counts as actually using the google image. and they dont get included as a part of any distribution. it is a translation of colors, not the actual image itself. no use of the google images other than reference occurs. i really dont see how just moving the paint brush in surveyor over the colors and replacing them with another color would do anything to change that.
 
The following taken from the "Copyright" section of the Wikipedia GE entry:

Currently, every image created from Google Earth using satellite data provided by Google Earth is a copyrighted map. Any derivative from Google Earth is made from copyrighted data which, under United States Copyright Law, may not be used except under the licenses Google provides. Google allows non-commercial personal use of the images (e.g. on a personal website or blog) as long as copyrights and attributions are preserved.[75] By contrast, images created with NASA's globe software World Wind use The Blue Marble, Landsat or USGS layer, each of which is a terrain layer in the public domain. Works created by an agency of the United States government are public domain at the moment of creation. This means that those images can be freely modified, redistributed and used for commercial purposes.

Make of it what you will but certainly when the topic came up for discussion as regards use of Google Earth imagery in Railworks via RW Decal, the concensus was the decals must not be left in the route as this would be a breach of copyright. It depends whether or not the Transdem equivalent would be categorised the same. I suspect if you use UTM objects that could be a similar situation to Decal, as opposed to having Transdem paint the image with its own texture palette.

I guess the only way to be sure is decide what your intentions are then email Google to see whether the intended usage is within the terms of their licence...and stump up and pay if necessary.
 
Vern said:
The following taken from the "Copyright" section of the Wikipedia GE entry:

Currently, every image created from Google Earth using satellite data provided by Google Earth is a copyrighted map. Any derivative from Google Earth is made from copyrighted data which, under United States Copyright Law, may not be used except under the licenses Google provides. Google allows non-commercial personal use of the images (e.g. on a personal website or blog) as long as copyrights and attributions are preserved.[75] By contrast, images created with NASA's globe software World Wind use The Blue Marble, Landsat or USGS layer, each of which is a terrain layer in the public domain. Works created by an agency of the United States government are public domain at the moment of creation. This means that those images can be freely modified, redistributed and used for commercial purposes.

Make of it what you will but certainly when the topic came up for discussion as regards use of Google Earth imagery in Railworks via RW Decal, the concensus was the decals must not be left in the route as this would be a breach of copyright. It depends whether or not the Transdem equivalent would be categorised the same. I suspect if you use UTM objects that could be a similar situation to Decal, as opposed to having Transdem paint the image with its own texture palette.

I guess the only way to be sure is decide what your intentions are then email Google to see whether the intended usage is within the terms of their licence...and stump up and pay if necessary.
Click to expand...


Yes UTM is identical to rwdecal, and what he is doing would be not much different than making a drawing using the original as a reference.


It's not using the actual image on the map. I'm looking forward to seeing how it's done and using the technique. Because we're not talking about leaving an image on a route, TransDem is merely translating where the colors go and making a painting of it.
 
ModelerMJ said:
Hello all,

I've been using TransDEM to create the map for my prototypical route. Like many, I have Google Earth images that I would like to use to help me place items with some degree of accuracy. I was not, however, impressed with the way UTM tiles work in TS12. What I really wanted was a way to put a fairly decent representation of my Google Earth images directly on the terrain, and after quite a bit of experimentation I think have finally found a way to do so.

For more details, please see my post in the Screenshots forum. I put the meat of it there as it contains some good-size screen shots that I didn't think I was allowed to include in posts in this forum.

Regards,
-Mike
Click to expand...


Hello Mike,

I would appreciate it very much, if I could learn your method you have been using. :cool:

If a tutorial would become available, would you mind placing a copy on the Transdem forum?

Thank you in advance

Best regards

Kurt :wave:
 
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Maybe I'm misunderstanding the copyright-related comments, but I would like to clarify that I am not using UTM tiles, basemaps or any other kind of carrier object. The image is being painted directly on the terrain surface (as stated in my post in the screenshots forum).

Because I am not using UTM tiles, there is nothing for TransDEM to remove; it will be the responsibility of the route builder to obliterate the Google Earth image (i.e. by texturing over it) before releasing the route. That was my plan, in any case.

Regards,
-Mike
 
yes thats exactly right, and TransDem is only using the google image as a color reference, and not the actual image itself, therefore there is no copyright infringement as the original google image is not included in any way. there would be no difference at all if someone was to 'paint over' the TransDem applied colors, it would only be replicating what is already there, i.e. the same effect could be acheived by simply using another translation in TransDem with different color Kuids.
 
norfolksouthern37 said:
yes thats exactly right, and TransDem is only using the google image as a color reference, and not the actual image itself, therefore there is no copyright infringement as the original google image is not included in any way. there would be no difference at all if someone was to 'paint over' the TransDem applied colors, it would only be replicating what is already there, i.e. the same effect could be acheived by simply using another translation in TransDem with different color Kuids.
Click to expand...


Amen and ditto.


I'm actually quite excited about it, I think I asked Phil once and still did not understand what he told me :) about using the custom textures. If Mike would be so gracious to write a nice simple language explanation of it I'm sure I'm not alone in saying there will be a lot of us who will be eternally grateful.
 
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Just to cover the bases, I did make a post on the Google Earth forums describing what we are doing here (in general terms) to see what kind of comments I will get.

I actually have a contact at Google from a few years ago when I did some work porting Google SketchUp models into DarkBASIC Professional. He reviewed my manuals & tutorials for proper usage of the Google name and so on then, so if all else fails I may try to look him up and get the final word.

Also, I have researched ground textures a bit more and was able to get 1 of mine (as a start) to be error-free with a Trainz Build of 2.9. I'm using the same TGA file for both the image and the normal, but from what I read I understand that in this case that should be just fine.

So there's now a bunch of work to do to update the other 139 to be error-free as well before I upload them, but I think it will be best in the long run to at least try to do it right the first time.

Regards,
-Mike
 
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Well if we can get it working and Google don't have an issue it could transform the speed at which routes can be textured! The only caveat (and nothing to do with copyright) is that Google Maps/Earth imagery can be quite low res in a few locations so in those cases you would still need to paint long hand.
 
Vern said:
Well if we can get it working and Google don't have an issue it could transform the speed at which routes can be textured! The only caveat (and nothing to do with copyright) is that Google Maps/Earth imagery can be quite low res in a few locations so in those cases you would still need to paint long hand.
Click to expand...

Well I don't think he ever intended it to be the complete solution for texturing. The way I read the original post and the way I understand TransDem to work it would just give you a little more guidance as to trees, perhaps buildings or other landmarks.

There's lots of times that I will just use Google maps not the satellite imagery just the regular map as a texture to start out with, it's not as high resolution as UTM tiles of the same information, but it kind of gives me an idea about roads and such.
 
To be honest I tend to be happier working with a map overlay rather than satellite imagery. The USGS 1:24000 maps from Libre Maps or the individual State repositories (e.g. New York) are rich in detail and will often even give clues to track layouts, show abandoned lines etc. So in that respect I would rather use maps and trust to my artistic ability (yeah, right!) to do a decent representation of the terrain.
 
i think this is a great idea. i wrote a translator for HOG that did the same thing a few years ago, except i intended to leave most of what it drew down as the actual terrain textures so i chose a set of textures in surveyor and translated those instead of flat colors.
 
mrscsi said:
... The way I read the original post and the way I understand TransDem to work it would just give you a little more guidance as to trees, perhaps buildings or other landmarks. ...
Click to expand...

That's exactly what this technique is intended to do. I wanted DEM terrain but at the same time I wanted something on the terrain that would show me where to put major landscape features. This particular method came about mainly because of the ability of TS12 to transition directly to and from satellite view - now, with a decent picture right in Surveyor, my process is to zoom out, find a feature of interest, center there, zoom in, and place the feature; zooming out again as needed to check it. Much faster and much more accurate, but still intended mainly to address the landscape.

I already have a separate technique for accurately placing tracks and roads that does not rely on the ground texture for guidance, but it was ineffective for the landscape; now I have the means to do both. Even so, I still need to refer to e.g. a Google Earth image on another screen in order to make sure I get some details right, so this is certainly not an end-all solution (nor was it ever intended to be).

Regards,
-Mike
 
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hi mike

i needed something like this when i done the rockhampton station area with the rail line running up the streets

in the end i gave up and made a generic one

i may try to update the route when you get this finished

thanks
ron
 
Tutorial is now available.

The tutorial has been completed and is now available here.

The link leads to a ZIP archive which contains the tutorial document in PDF format, along with the necessary TransDEM cross-reference file and a CDP of the custom textures. Download, unzip, and follow the directions in the PDF.

Many thanks to Dr. Roland Ziegler for reviewing my tutorial and hosting the files. Thanks also to all who posted here for their kind remarks.

Regards,
-Mike
 
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