Persistent bug in 2010

H

HiBaller

19 Years of Trainz
I am unable to get into the bug reporting panel so I am reporting this here:

I am working on a fairly large section of a route and have noticed huge inverted spikes appearing randomly around the map. I take an hour or so and pull all of them up to ground level, save the map, and continue working. The next time I open the map, there are random spikes scattered around the map again.

This is persistent, and repeatable, every time I start working and seem to be formed by the 'save' processing.

These spikes (see below) will take vertices, roads, textures and everything placed within the 10M area down with it.

Bill

pits.jpg
 
The latest - 42203.

I've also noticed that when I am NOT in wireframe mode, there are black dots on the surface instead of the normal texture I've applied.

Bill
 
Martin

I am pretty sure that if you have a map that has had the contours worked on you will have this problem. There is one common factor between Bill and I, we are both working on sections of an original DEM'd route. I first saw these early on in TS2010, fixed them up and thought that was the end. I had a shock when I saw how wide-spread they were, even in areas that had not been changed.

The easiest way to find them is to work in wire-frame mode. It is not a world-stopper bug but it does need fixing.

Peter
 
narrowgauge said:
Martin

I am pretty sure that if you have a map that has had the contours worked on you will have this problem. ....

Peter
Click to expand...
Actually, my current project is on a DEM made map from microDEM and HOG. The only dropouts are ones I deliberately created to mark the intersections of latitude and longitude. This I did by drawing black crosses at those points on the DEM data map. Did your DEM source map contain any black spots scattered over the color gradients?
 
Hmmmm. You might have hit on part of the problem Martin. I reloaded one of my initial maps created and did note some odd black spots on the original ground-cover map. They do not, however, correspond to where I am having my problems now. And, once I pulled the pits back to ground level they should STAY there. Some of them do, and some of them don't. I also have new pits popping up (or, rather, down) where they never had appeared before.

I still think it's a bug.

Bill
 
I've been having this problem (both the spiked depressions, and the black areas of texture) since using TS2010. Never had the problem in TS2009.

My map is also generated from a DEM, using TransDem.

Now that I can import my TS2010 map back into TransDem (new version), I am going to try doing that, and see if I can fix the problem in TransDem, then re-create the map in TS2010.

Not sure what will happen to all of the texturing though. I don't want to lose so much just to get rid of this little problem.

FW
 
Well, FW, I guess it all depends on what you call 'a little problem'. This morning, I spent 4 hours de-spiking my route. I counted - there were 573 reverse spikes on my map. I pulled up every one of them. I saved the route. I got completely out of 2010 and re-entered it (after even TADDaemon shut down).

Quickly scanning my route, I had 27 reverse spikes on five boards.

If anyone can come up with a fix for this I would be eternally grateful. I fired off an email to the helpdesk, but all I've gotten back is the automated return saying they'd "get right on it".

Virtually everything I look at now has a bluish cast and a grid superimposed on it :hehe:

Bill
 
I have been doing some sleuthing. Backtracking through the saved routes I find that the trouble started after 20th Feb and before 28th Feb. I had wondered if either of the SPs came in that time bracket but they didn't.

The original DEM showed no evidence of the problem. I have just re-checked the section that I know was cleared of the spikes and like Bill, I found a cluster of 13 in an area where no work had been done since the clearing session.

Peter
 
About two hours ago I went over my just cleared route. I now have 253 pits where none existed before - and that's just half the route. Every time I clear and save they just come back again and bring their friends.

They riddle my landscape, suck tracks down, clobber roads, and down at the bottom of one of them was a house.

I am just going to have to stop working on the route until this gets fixed or some way to counter the bug is found. I am absolutely NOT going to go around that whole route again and fix those pits only to have them pop right back up (or down, actually) again.

Bill
 
Bill

Do you have previously saved copies? Could you check back and see if this was occurring earlier. Perhaps we can fix a start date and relate it to something that changed.

It's hitting you more that me, I wonder why. Judging by Frank's comment, it is not confined to us, I wish other people using TS2010 would check their routes to see how common this problem is.

Peter
 
Except for deliberate dents I made in the DEM data, my 2010 DEM map has no anomalous spikes. I'm in there almost daily, editing the route and have not had any spikes growing in there either.
 
If you used a DEM app to generate your terrain, which one was it?
I used TransDem. If others are having the same trouble using a different DEM converter app, then I think that would point the finger of blame to TS.

FW
 
The route I'm playing with was created in TransDEM 1 (I don't remember the exact version). I saw one time a series of spikes - I believe it was in the TS2009 timeframe. I fixed those, and haven't seen any more.
It's a curious problem, that's for sure.

Curtis
 
I have also done some sleuthing and found that the spikes are caused when saving my route; but, apparently, only after doing a 'replace assets'. I've loaded up my route and added one house then done a 'save'. I also did a 'save as...' - no spikes.

Then I did a 'replace assets' of the ground cover I had, to a different ground cover. When the replace was over - there were black spots on the ground. I did another 'Save as...' and when the screen blinked (like it usually does) every spot where there was a black area had turned into the pit reaching down to '0'.

If anyone is interested in checking my work, I have two CDP's that I can send (in a PM) the two CDPs that will show the sequence of events that produces the spikes. The PM is because we are still working on the route and it isn't nearly ready for actual release.

Bill
 
narrowgauge said:
Bill

Do you have previously saved copies? Could you check back and see if this was occurring earlier. Perhaps we can fix a start date and relate it to something that changed.

It's hitting you more that me, I wonder why. Judging by Frank's comment, it is not confined to us, I wish other people using TS2010 would check their routes to see how common this problem is.

Peter
Click to expand...

OK, checked my current project in 2010 SP2, nothing strange happening, DEM was produced using Microdem.

I have been doing quite a lot of replace assets and again no sign of anything odd happening.

Just to add, this may be relevant, the whole DEM has been converted to the 5m grid.
 
Yes. I've also seen the black spots after using replace assets to change ground texture. I didn't relate that to the appearance of spikes, but now that you mention it, I'll check for them.

FW
 
fwassner said:
If you used a DEM app to generate your terrain, which one was it?
I used TransDem. If others are having the same trouble using a different DEM converter app, then I think that would point the finger of blame to TS.

FW
Click to expand...
I used both microDEM 2010.3.9.1 and TranzDEM 2.0.0.0 to create contoured maps for routes. Neither one produced any spikes that showed in TS2010. Have you validated that your elevation data is clean? Having spikes appear in Surveyor where none existed before is really strange. Almost as if parts of the grid were unstable and collapsed. Are all the bottoms of the spikes at elevation zero?
 
Yup. The elevation at the bottom is zero. I suspect that the 'black' dots are simply the absence of any color - including the baseboard because I have seen a triangular 'opening' right in the middle of a black spot that will let you look under the baseboard. Looks exactly like a 'dighole'.

If you try and "get" the color of a dot, it will return the surrounding color; NOT black.

Bill
 
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