Croydon Trams and South London Railways

Hello all. I've been busy for a little while so not been up to much trainz building in a few months, however, I'm hoping to get my teeth into a big project.

Firstly, for anyone who is at all interrested in what i've been up to, i'll post a few bits and bobs in a mo. My Speyside railway has been going well; i really enjoy it and think it is quite a beautiful model, however there are some big problems presented by the use of a Single line; i get a lot of system crashes and trains getting lost in the yards etc. I'm sure if i adopted a more specialised control system other than just the standard signals i might have more luck. I've sorta given up on this project because i have very little reference of the route; I've been building it from google earth mostly, so the track matches the original route well but the elevation, and scenery are mostly guess work.

My Waterloo-Wimbledon layout seems to work much better (infact, this one crashes because i've tried to run a realistic number of services!) But unlike the speyside line which has to little reference, i ride this route everyday almost and i'm not happy with in-game or downloaded content; it just doesn't look right

So: My new big project...

Starting from Wimbledon Train station (Pretty much my back garden) to construct (if possible from scratch) the entire station on the SWT mainline, the end of the District Line and the Croydon Tramlink. Since this is very reference heavy, i'd also like to add the end of the proposed Chelsea-Hackney Line, Changes to the thameslink Platform to upgrade it to a TFL overground line, and changes to move the tramlink platform from it's current location to a new purpose-built stop at street level (If anyone knows Wimbledon, where the taxi-rank is). This relocation will allow me to add a wimbledon street level tram network, and a possible extension up wimbledon hill to the Wimbledon common, lawn tennis club, and Putney Bridge. I may also add a second tram line, perhaps creating a link between tooting- streatham-brixton and Kingston, to make my town centre more interresting, and to get rid of all the blasted busses that run that route!

Basically then, I'm very interrested in trams; I've seen quite a few on DLS and wanna know what system works best. I'm currently messing about with AJS tram-tracks, which are very easy to use, but I have no idea how to make more realistic features such as bus/tram lanes etc. I was looking at the Edenbridge tram screenshots too, very impressive; more like what i'd like to produce. Can anyone recommend me a good track system, road system, cantenaries, train control systems, signals and tram units? I basically need to know everything i'm gonna use before i start work.

Hi
I came to Australia in 1968 having been born and bred in Croydon (Thornton Heath) and will keep an eye on your developments with great interest.
Ron

You might find some of my stuff useful: Tramway speed signs, my elevated kit, tramway signals, light rail platforms, bus lanes and some pole & wire style overhead. I'm also working on a more comprehensive overhead system - I might even be able to do some with poles to match TramLink.

In addition, look out for Boat's ATLS system for traffic lights, and adrian19's complementary crossing barriers.

I'll post again if I think of anything else...

Paul

p.s. Had a bit of a look at Croydon in GE, and it looks like the I-beam poles in my WIP pole set are just about right...

Thanks: yep it's mostly gonna be based on content from the original Bridgehampton (At least, i'm just looking at how things are done and what components to use for everything), so thanks for that Paul. If you upload anything a tram network cant be without that'd be great. Also, i could do with a crash course in how trams 'work'; signals and such. Can anyone recommend a good tutorial? It's kinda obvious, but I dont wanna go making wierd maistakes that tram fans would pick up on when i start inventing new bits of line etc.

I intend to start work in Wimbledon: Hopefully i'll get down to Croydon (But i'm sure my love of inventing new stuff will mean my other lines get priority!) I'm currently working on a test section based on Tooting Southcroft Road; basically setting up the bus lanes to run trams. I will upload a few pics as soon as i figure out how to upload to here.

Currently, i'm looking for station furnishings for my tram: I'm using Paul's red ticket machine, but may re-skin it green. Could do with a few nice "modern" bus shelter-type designs for my on street stops (The platforms are a bit narrow but realistic i feel, so big platform canopies wouldn't work.) Might try to make these myself (Gmax sucks, but I'm working in sketchup and converting them through gmax, works okay, need to sort out the textures though.... any good tutorials?)

One final thing, i'm looking for stock for my layout: I'm currently using the green Siemen's Combino available on DLS but the one-side door format will not work later down the line. I'd like to run larger consists than the CR4000's currently on tramlink (i dont think the CR4000 are available on DLS anyway) plus i'm sure that with the introduction of the leased edinburgh trams this year, new larger units will enter service in the future. Perhaps the units off Dazza's Edenbridge layout might do? I hear they're from PTrams, but they seem to be having some server errors at the moment (At least, i can seem to download); I think a nice tramlink green would suit them well, if anyone knows where i can get them from or something better?

Anyway, TA all

Tomas

These are the poles I'm working on:



I've got a variety of double & single arms to suit them too, plus I'll release them as stand-alone for doing street spans. I'm also planning some alternate poles.

I forgot to mention that I'm also working on a fairly comprehensive set of UK road markings that work the same as the AJS street kit, but with a lot more choice, and the ability to support differing speed limits (TC and up).

I'm not aware of any tutorials on tram signalling - I'm mostly using guesswork myself...

Not a lot of folks use Sketchup for trainz, due to the difficulties in controlling poly count, and keeping texture numbers down. It may be best to texture in GMax - there are plenty of tutorials for that around.

Paul

ps If you're out an about with your camera, there's plenty of folks around who might be able to knock up a few key buildings...

Well, I think I'd like to do the buildings myself: I work as a CAD designer these days... It's just me getting my mind into GMAX work (I've always disliked 3ds max) much prefer autoCAD, vectorworks.... infact anything else!

Sketchup is the easiest program to build anything at all detailed i feels, so i'm just exporting in as low poly as possible and rendering on Gmax.

I've had a look out the window; locally, tramlink uses round-section poles, however, the light-rail sections and bits that run through the not-quite-so-nice bits of croydon use I-section poles... so i guess i'll be using both. Oh, what height do UK trams run at? 6.4m or 5.6m?

Not to sound like a moron, but how do i get my flickr images into the thread? I just get the little red 'x' thing.... err, clearly doing something wrong... I'll add some pics of my tooting test street so peeps can have a comment....

Tomas

tlowthion1 said:

Well, I think I'd like to do the buildings myself: I work as a CAD designer these days... It's just me getting my mind into GMAX work (I've always disliked 3ds max) much prefer autoCAD, vectorworks.... infact anything else!

Click to expand...

Err, GMAX and 3DSM are pretty much identical, you can transfer between either in terms of skills rather easily. I know 3DSM is a pain in the rear, but you can create some stunning stuff with it, if you get used to it.
( Like this lot I created: http://www.wessexelectricnut.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=51&Itemid=61 )
And it is also possible to get Autocad objects into 3DSM easily.

Most Trainz models and my overhead use wire that is 5.3m over the railhead. Modula City and Denis_fr use the same. I use Andi06's track without a wire, and use my elevated waygauges to help line the wire up.

I'm sure I can do a round version if I can find some pictures - can you point me in the right direction?

I'm a machinery designed by day (using Autodesk Inventor), so it took me a while to latch onto GMax. I now find it much eaasier for buildings, but for more complex or curved stuff I use Inventor and export (still doing all the texturing in GMax). Sketchup has 2 drawbacks: the first is that it's not really set up to use a single texture file for the whole model (though I understand you can if you know what you're doing), the second is that you have no real control of the poly count of the exported model. In GMax, two intersecting cubes are always 24 polys - in Sketchup it can be many times that due to the L-shaped faces. In Inventor I get round this by exporting in non-overlapping sections, and re-assembling in GMax.

Anyway, it sounds like you know what you're doing. Good luck - I look forward to seeing the results...

Paul

True. I shall dive into the rhelms of CAD packages later, but I think I can get Sketchup to behave, mostly by constructing things properly as complete components (ie. how it would be build for real, each metal beam or surface as a different component.) This has worked for me before in a test Canopy i made based on those at wimbledon train station

As you can see it seems to work, may be pretty high poly though, and needs some better quality rendering.

Currently, having a go at creating Amen Corner in Tooting: (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&q=amen corner&gbv=2&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=il) Giving ATLS a try. I'm running two tramlines along southcroft road (on the outer edges). The northern side line cuts the 'bulge' in a tram only line, the south line moves to the centre of the road for the junction (the transition is made at the previous junction) and pulls into a tram-only line with station on the far side of the junction. They then both continue up Mitcham Road on the outer edges again).

Just wondering, did anyone every make those 'line only' splines to match Andi06's roads that Dazza promised in his tutorials? I want to make roads slightly bigger than Andi's, and would rather not have to divert excess traffic off all over the place using actual road splines.

Tomas

Ah, here we go: This should make things much easier to follow.....

(Amen Corner, Tooting)

(Road Plan inc Tram lanes. Currently ATLS lights and trams controllers work, traffic stoppers do not; I have not yet sorted the invisible roads out)

(Amen Corner from Southcroft Road)

(And from Mitcham Road)

(The junction with Rectory Lane from Amen Corner)

(Southcroft Road)

Either side of southcroft will be some council-type semi's, and i intend to create the 'landmark' curving bank building and modern flats either side of amen corner. I currently have not put in the wires, will start that today I think.

Oh, and is there any way I can make a platform spline for the on-street stops? Currently i'm just uing the pavement spline, inserting some spline points and setting the middle to be higher, then drawing the edge lines in with another spline. Ideally, just a 3.6m wide pavement spline with edge lines would do the job (At least cut down on all these spline points getting in the way)

Newly Uploaded Images of Previous Projects

Having finally worked out how to get my sceenpics onto the forum, I've also uploaded pics of my Clapham-Waterloo Line and Speyside Railway Project. Have a gander if you like, but i'm not too fussed about feedback, I've abandonned them for now.
Tomas

Looking good so far.

I've got some road marking splines similar to Andi06's using official UK measurements in progress. Yellow lines etc are separate, so road width is flexible. I've uploaded a beta version here: https://secure.storegate.com/user/Share.aspx?id=be82eca3-32a0-4116-ad77-f41f1c36853e Note some of these will not work in versions prior to Trainz Classics. They won't change much before release, but the names WILL change.

Have you tried my Island platforms? They are fixed objects, but work fine at the side of the road. I've also got a spline that will attach to AJS platforms in the works, but I'm not quite happy with the size yet.

If sketchup will export without merging the components you should be OK on poly count. I've always found GMax pretty good for texturing even if it's a bit iffy for complex mesh creation.

Paul

aces, thanks paul, thats just what i needed.

Found that if you paint everything in sketchup a different colour, and use the 'make components from colours' option it works... (i think). I think i'm gonna play about sending models from sketchup to C4d, rendering there, then transfering to Gmax... my version on C4d has a few good bolt-ons for rendering so i'll see what I can make.

Tomas

Looking really good !!!

I used to live in Tooting Bec and ran my business from Tooting Broadway, so I used to know the area well (in 1989)

Tram Stations

Yeah, I used to live in Furzedown Tower (Graveney School), and had to take the bus to Uni everyday. It was such a nightmare, i think a nice tram-route would make things so much nicer.

Here's an on-street tram station i'm working on. I'm hoping to produce the entire station as a single unit, as an island type station, and as a kit of bits for making custom platforms. Although it is not a recreation of a real prototype, it looks right i think.



(Visible from left to right, Bin, Ticket machine, Shelter with signs, Cantilever Bench, Oyster 'bipper', arrivals board).

Oh, send me a link if you know a tutorial for 'type-your-own' signs.... I'd like the platform signs to read the stop name

Tomas

Starting From Wimbledon Today

Right, since having a play about in Tooting, i'm now starting the main model. The line so far splits off the existing Tramlink line at Dundonald Road crossing. (the line accross the road serves as service access only, and i intend to use rusty rails and some over-grown grasses to show this is out of service). The line then continues up a pedestrianised dedicated tram-route along Beluah Road (This road runs behind houses so would not prevent access) and joins with the Kingston line on a loop around wimbledon's central one-way system. I have currently only added un-rendered models so that i can lay out the track (I'm gonna go and photograph everything when i have time to make the final textured models)

Dundonald Road Junction: This will feature a derelict track and station on the route to the mainline.

Croydon line joins the Kingston Line here, behind Wimbledon's Odeon Cinema.

The original location. The pavement on the right is now narrower to accommodate a tram and bus lane.

Wimbledon Town centre

Town centre modelled using Google Sketchup. By importing scale maps form google earth, i have modeled large basic structures accurately. These i have then exported as 3ds files into Gmax ready for rendering. (This is only possible with sketchup pro version)

Right, gotta get building.
Tomas