Authors - Notice of Intent on Project TARM

I

ianwoodmore

Active member
Hello TRAINZ Authors,

TRAINZ is a great game.


However, one of the greatest frustrations with TRAINZ is either faulty assets, or missing dependencies. Some of you may have benefitted from Steve Forget’s TARL facility that is sadly defunct. A new facility is in the development stage.

Missing Assets

We want to help TRAINZERS by finding missing assets and listing their whereabouts in the Missing Assets Directory and Exchange (MADE).

Our intention is to list them in MADE at a Trainz Community website. MADE will go live during 2010.

As a first step I am trying to find some 10,000 missing dependencies as reported in TS2010 Content Manager (CM) by appealing to the authors affected.

Would you please provide us with information on the whereabouts of those missing assets. If you are the author could you please consider uploading them to the DLS.

TARL

Do your assets show those pesky red and yellow icons in Content Manager?

Ideally, you would be updating them to get rid of the errors and warnings yourself. That’s assuming you are still active in the Trainz Community.

Some of your assets may fall into this category. They may have appeared to work in earlier Trainz versions, but because of the more stringent validation requirements for TS2010 the CM reports them as missing or faulty. Wouldn’t you rather be developing something new, or pushing the technological boundaries?

If you can fix your faulty assets we can all enjoy TRAINZ that much more including your creations.

As an interim step we will be providing information on how to repair broken assets in the Trainz Assets Repair Guide (TARG), and would like to upload sanatised versions of the associated config files to the Trainz Asset Repair Library (TARL).

Config files from 2,000 authors are involved and it is impractical to try and contact each of you individually. Many of you live in countries of which my language skills are sadly lacking. Will moderators or Trainzers with multiple language skills please translate this open letter and post it in the relevant sub-forum. If you do not wish to be involved in this project please advise, and we will exclude your assets from the project.

We expect TARL to go live mid 2010 at a Trainz Community website and will be pleased to see you there.

Your help in making TARL and MADE a success will be greatly appreciated by the TRAINZ Community.

Notice of intent

Please see the next post.

Ian Woodmore
Wellington
New Zealand
 
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Thanks Ian. I have that problem also. I usually convert a DOC to a TXT file and then use that for pasting into a post.

I only have one route on the DLS. "Wild Bill II" and some pieces of it that can be joined together. I used both items from the DLS and from Sir Gibby's Trainzone.

I just loaded it into 2010 and see that once I added the content from the DLS and Trainzone, there are only a couple missing dependencies. All that show up are trivial and not worth the effort to track down. A LOT of the assets are faulty however because my route originally was created/meant for TRS2004. It is a huge leap from 2004 to 2010.

Probably best to just leave my stuff alone also.

Bill
 
Hiballer,

0 errors
0 warnings
1 missing dependencies
5 unknowns
2 broken dependencies

I've fixed 61 dependencies used by you. With the repairs I've done there shouldn't be any difficulties in running yours in TS2010 SP1 according to CM3.2 build 41615 which is the validation baseline.

However, your decison noted and recorded.
 
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Thanks Bill,

Your support is appreciated. I'd hate to think how many thousands of hours I've put into this project over at least five years. We really do need encouragement and wide support from all parts of the Trainz Community to continue this massive task. It can be quite daunting at times when you are up to your eyeballs in red and yellow icons, but I think I've got most of it licked.

Going to need some input from people who are knowledgeable on scripts, preferably the authors. Haven't got a clue about Trainzscript. There's about 150 affected including 20 missing. I can identify them and list them on the forum. Then its up to the experts to fix them.
 
I think you're going to find, Ian, that the main difficulty is going to be getting authors to try and fix their creations. If a given author only has 2004 and creates content for that version, then there is zero incentive to fix it for, say, 2006 or 2009. If the author doesn't even HAVE those versions then it's futile to even ask.

I have every version except for TC3. Whenever I run into something that a given version 'thinks' is bad/faulty then I have a go at fixing it. This may work fine on MY OWN machine, but does nothing for the community as a whole. Even if I know what's wrong I can't distribute it anyway. I could, I suppose, keep a list of everything I've fixed, but that becomes a terrible drag as the route gets larger.

If I were to use a given piece of content on a route I upload after fixing it, the faulty version still remains on the DLS (or elsewhere). You've started a great task. Please note that I say this totally in jest:

"Never start vast projects with half vast ideas".

Keep smiling :D

Bill
 
boat said:
Ian, A fine task you are doing. Keep it up. Boat
Click to expand...

I'd have to agree with "Boats" and "Ian" here guys & gals.... KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK GUYS !!! -
I have to be honest, I've follow this post from inception, and I'm really starting to wonder why some of the contents creators even upload their PRECIOUS creations to the DLS.
If their freeware creations that they have freely uploaded to the DLS for the community to use & share freely are so precious to them, WHY UPLOAD.

Alot of CONTENT creators create for the sheer pleasure of creating and giving & sharing... (sort of like "free love" back in the 60's) :hehe: Some seem to only create because they want there names in the big "bright lights" as the saying goes...
Often in life, it's the same old, same old, me, me, me!!! and with some it's been their attitudes thought-out there life. !!! (obviously, in some cases, if they are that concerned about their creations, maybe they should only be selling it as payware only)...

And to those other knockers, (& they know who I'm referring too) if your DLS creations are so precious to yourself's, keep the ____'en things to yourself's. I'd personally prefer not to download your stuff if that's your attitude..................

These positive guys in this tread aren't trying to plagiarizes anyone's creations. They are just trying to find a sensible solution to the obvious problem... OK, Auran have shifted the goal posts. "That's obvious"... No, it's not your fault (or mine). Ok, so your creations still work OK in the version of Trainz they we created for. That's great. - but it doesn't change the fact that a lot of old content needs updating to work "fault free in Native mode" in 09 & 010...

Now things have moved on. If you want to PERSONALLY fix the faults or bring your creations up to the "new spec's", "that's great". If you personally don't wish to do this for whatever reason, that's great, but why the "_" would you worry about others BEING prepared to do it for you ???????????????? (some of the community are prepared to put 100's of hours in, some possibly 1000's of hours in over time to fix things, and some of you knock them for offering, "FO")...

Personally I don't see what the problem is particularly if full credit is still given to "you" for being the "original creator". (Joe Blobs originally created this content and he/she has kindly allowed me to updated it to 09/010 spec's). Full credit goes to Joe Blobs for his/her original creation...

OK, so there are some creators that don't want there creations toughed. FULL STOP!!! - OK, let us know, as some have already done so in this post and hopefully a respectable member of the community like JohnK can keep some sort of register & make a reference page on his great Trainz web site letting the community know of those creators that have made it clear that "under no circumstances do they want there creations touched"... Fair enough !!!

Foot note; Why have some treated "the good guys" in this thread as if they are the "bogey men"... They are just trying to find a sensibly solution to the new problem of alot of the old content being faulty & not working in "native mode" in 09 & 010,
I for one applaud the positive guys for there effort. They are not doing it for personal gain. They are trying to do it because they honestly believe it is in the best interest of 99.9% of the Trainz community.
Now that I've had my rant and four glasses of wine I fell much better... (Nothing personal "Ed") :hehe: Just me trying too stir the pot ALITTLE & let off a bit of "steam"...
Happy Trainzing. Cheers, Mac...
 
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Meatloaf747 said:
I'd have to agree with "Boats" and "Ian" here guys & gals.... KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK GUYS !!! -
I have to be honest, I've follow this post from inception, and I'm really starting to wonder why some of the contents creators even upload their PRECIOUS creations to the DLS.
If their freeware creations that they have freely uploaded to the DLS for the community to use & share freely are so precious to them, WHY UPLOAD.

Alot of CONTENT creators create for the sheer pleasure of creating and giving & sharing... (sort of like "free love" back in the 60's) :hehe: Some seem to only create because they want there names in the big "bright lights" as the saying goes...
Often in life, it's the same old, same old, me, me, me!!! and with some it's been their attitudes thought-out there life. !!! (obviously, in some cases, if they are that concerned about their creations, maybe they should only be selling it as payware only)...

And to those other knockers, (& they know who I'm referring too) if your DLS creations are so precious to yourself's, keep the ____'en things to yourself's. I'd personally prefer not to download your stuff if that's your attitude..................

These positive guys in this tread aren't trying to plagiarizes anyone's creations. They are just trying to find a sensible solution to the obvious problem... OK, Auran have shifted the goal posts. "That's obvious"... No, it's not your fault (or mine). Ok, so your creations still work OK in the version of Trainz they we created for. That's great. - but it doesn't change the fact that a lot of old content needs updating to work "fault free in Native mode" in 09 & 010...

Now things have moved on. If you want to PERSONALLY fix the faults or bring your creations up to the "new spec's", "that's great". If you personally don't wish to do this for whatever reason, that's great, but why the "_" would you worry about others BEING prepared to do it for you ???????????????? (some of the community are prepared to put 100's of hours in, some possibly 1000's of hours in over time to fix things, and some of you knock them for offering, "FO")...

Personally I don't see what the problem is particularly if full credit is still given to "you" for being the "original creator". (Joe Blobs originally created this content and he/she has kindly allowed me to updated it to 09/010 spec's). Full credit goes to Joe Blobs for his/her original creation...

OK, so there are some creators that don't want there creations toughed. FULL STOP!!! - OK, let us know, as some have already done so in this post and hopefully a respectable member of the community like JohnK can keep some sort of register & make a reference page on his great Trainz web site letting the community know of those creators that have made it clear that "under no circumstances do they want there creations touched"... Fair enough !!!

Foot note; Why have some treated "the good guys" in this thread as if they are the "bogey men"... They are just trying to find a sensibly solution to the new problem of alot of the old content being faulty & not working in "native mode" in 09 & 010,
I for one applaud the positive guys for there effort. They are not doing it for personal gain. They are trying to do it because they honestly believe it is in the best interest of 99.9% of the Trainz community.
Now that I've had my rant and four glasses of wine I fell much better... (Nothing personal "Ed") :hehe: Just me trying too stir the pot ALITTLE & let off a bit of "steam"...
Happy Trainzing. Cheers, Mac...
Click to expand...

I have sent you a PM, Meat, and I hope it helps you to holster some of your venom.

Edit*:

Okay, lacking any response from Meat, after more than an hour I feel I should set the record straight. Seeing as how most of (if not all) of his wine inspired self acknowledged 'rant' was directed at me, allow me to defend myself. It shouldn't be necessary, but I can see that many will form the same opinions as Mr Meat, so you all should take the following into consideration.

The items I created were for much earlier versions of Trainz. They do not now, nor will in the future stand up to the graphic improvements in later versions. They were suitable for earlier times, but advances in both younger men's skill and the program itself will render my work from the past laughable in the present. For this reason I do not want my work brought forward or 'fixed' for current use or future use. I also feel that publishing part of a model will lead to other issues that we should try to avoid.

Rather than believing my body of work is so 'precious', I admit that it does not stand up well today, is dated, and is inferior to the work newer, younger users are producing.

The original poster here was kind enough to honor my request graciously, I ask that the rest of you do the same. It's not fair to jump to conclusions concerning a person's motivations, but that shouldn't be problem since I have stated in no uncertain terms my reasoning.

Thanks for ranting my way, and trying to infer that I am a selfish bast*rd that does not care about the community. Thanks for putting me in a position where I am forced to admit that my creations are not all that good in order to defend my actions.:'(

As I have said, please let my content Rest in Peace; it's days are over, and a corpse moldering in a grave is never pretty. Let it lie...

Edit*: I have received an answer to my PM to Meatloaf747, and we harbor no ill will towards each other. I will let my above response to his post stand, as to not appear like I'm trying to pull a fast one... I will reinterate that my objection to someone else "fixing" my old content, and then making it widely available is simply because A) I don't want my creaky old work dragged into later versions. B) Publishing one part of a model will lead to others publishing other parts of a model.
 
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Ed,
As I mentioned in my PM to you, I apologies to you if you think my post was directed at you personally. It wasn't directed at you personally. You are a well respected member of the community and I have a great respect for you..

My post was more about my frustration with so many individuals members of the community correcting faulty asset, and not being able to share those repaired/updated assets with the community. Frustrating... I know there's arguments on both sides of the coin and I don't profess to have the answer.

I'd just like to see something sorted so we can all move forward with TS2010. (I was hoping 09 would unite the community. That didn't happen, but I have high hopes that 010 is the answer).
Cheers, Mac... ;)
 
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We must have crossed posted, or at least cross edited!
Thank you for your response, I have edited my post above.

Sorry Ian, for taking such a chunk out of your thread!
 
An opinion and a question

HiBaller said:
... Whenever I run into something that a given version 'thinks' is bad/faulty then I have a go at fixing it.... Even if I know what's wrong I can't distribute it anyway. ...
Bill
Click to expand...

This is part of Trainz that I really don't get. If we put up free content to the DLS...why is it not free to use or modify if necessary? If there is faulty content and the original creator has no interest, or has left the community, for whatever reason. Why couldn't that content be "repaired" by someone else and put back up on the DLS? Credit given..."created by user xxxx updated to Trainz version xxxx by user xxxx"? It would automatically have a different user name and KUID attached. Of, course, common courtesy would demand that you try to contact the creator first. ( see Euphod's previous post )
Can someone tell me the problem with that?
Oh, there is a license agreement that we all agreed to when uploading? In my opinion, that should be null and void, since N3V games aparrently is updating content only minimally if at all...and as such, shooting themselves in the foot.
The content creators feelings will be hurt if their content is fiddled with?
I've been working on my hometown route for over 5 years. I do everything I can to get it correct to the prototype. If I ever thought it complete enough to upload to the DLS, why should I care if someone took it, had a better idea and uploaded a modified version, if so stated?
Are the egos that big? Where's the harm? I mean, really, there are so few of us left.... ( no, Euphod, this is not directed at you )

The reality is this; there are thousands of pieces content already on the DLS.
If N3V games keeps "improving" the game, while leaving all that content behind, well....it doesn't take a genius to see where that is ending up.:eek: I'm not saying that is their (N3V games) place to update content, certainly not. In my opinon, the content license agreement should be modified and or nullified in order to help preserve the future of Trainz.;)
 
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Snippet: The items I created were for much earlier versions of Trainz. They do not now, nor will in the future stand up to the graphic improvements in later versions. They were suitable for earlier times, but advances in both younger men's skill and the program itself will render my work from the past laughable in the present. For this reason I do not want my work brought forward or 'fixed' for current use or future use. I also feel that publishing part of a model will lead to other issues that we should try to avoid.

If everyone felt this way, there would probably be less than 5,000 items on the DLS, 100 movies in the Video shop, 1,000 books at the library and Charlie Chaplain would be rolling in his grave.

Fortunately, we are still able to enjoy the wonderful things most of those great artists created for us.

Euphod, I find your comments very, very sad and somewhat depressing.
 
Johnk said:
Snippet: The items I created were for much earlier versions of Trainz. They do not now, nor will in the future stand up to the graphic improvements in later versions. They were suitable for earlier times, but advances in both younger men's skill and the program itself will render my work from the past laughable in the present. For this reason I do not want my work brought forward or 'fixed' for current use or future use. I also feel that publishing part of a model will lead to other issues that we should try to avoid.

If everyone felt this way, there would probably be less than 5,000 items on the DLS, 100 movies in the Video shop, 1,000 books at the library and Charlie Chaplain would be rolling in his grave.

Fortunately, we are still able to enjoy the wonderful things most of those great artists created for us.

Euphod, I find your comments very, very sad and somewhat depressing.
Click to expand...

Hear Hear. What worries me about this, is the fact that so many are already taking the 'I'm not going to update them, and I don't want anyone updating them' opt-out. Especially given that WindWalkr has stated the (obvious, really) Auran intention to eventually remove compatibility mode, and require 100% valid content.

It's even more worrying when we have a lot of content that relies on 3rd party items that aren't 100% working, by authors who have little/no intention to fix those items - eg, Chameleon doesn't work properly on TS2009/2010, and ElDavo appears to have no intention to fix it because he's angry at Auran changing things.

I suppose in the long run, this will give newer trainz users a chance to shine as content authors, without the 'I can never compete with him/her!' feeling you get when you see an already good/adequate (but often let down by something minor) item on the DLS. That may be a good thing long term, but at some point it will provide a very painful transition point.

As one of these newcomers to Trainz, I have mixed feelings.

Nikki.
 
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