Signaling wos

I'm new to signaling. I'm building a Danish route, and tried to use the one "danish signal pack" that's out there, but they have a ton of dependencies, which show up either missing or faulty, and I can't get them "in clean" for 2006.

I have been reading the "introduction to signaling" like it's a bible, but that does not help me here.

So, I'm trying now to use the built-in "Signal USA 2 02/04", but they seem to be way too "sensitive". I have a diverging track: one goes off to an industry and loops back, no problem getting a green light here, but the other shows red no matter what. That other line goes 2.5km off to a transfer table (ferry). It does not matter whether I use 2_02 or 2_L02.

Is there some way I can "shorten" the distance these signals check for "lane terminates". Even closer to the transfer table, I'd expect a yellow light, not a red.

Advice very much needed, and appreciated.

Oh, and another issue: I'm trying to place a signal ahead of a lift bridge (Lift Bridge 40), but the signal could care less whether the bridge is up or down. The bridge has an invisible track that's always "down", so the signal don't understand that there's a problem. How do I get around this one??

Hi jytte,

With any signal on a dead end track there must be another signal behind it to make it show other than red. Therefore if you place an invisible signal on the far end of the ferry the signal approaching the ferry will show yellow. As for the lift bridge the only way to overcome the green signal problem is to place an invisible junction on the approach to the bridge and have this junction set to default to the dead end. Again this will cause a red to be shown until a train approaches. Place a trackmark on the bridge and give your AI driver an instruction to drive via the trackmark on the bridge. Below is an example of another use for an invisible junction. The crossing gates stay closed until the train has loaded and is ready to depart.

Invisible switch kuid 53425 10000
invisible signal kuid2 53425 10001 1
invisible track is built in




Hope this helps,
Bill69

Hello Bill,
Thanks so much, this is a great help. I've been wondering what those invisible signals were good for.
Placing an invisible signal at the ferry makes sense, I'll try that and see how it works.
As for an invisible junction by the bridge, I'm not so sure I understand, but I'll have to read this 10 times more, and then experiment a bit to see if I can figure that one out as well.
Thanks again, now I can get back to my signaling.

I just placed an invis-signal behind my diverge, and another by the ferry, and now I have a green light by the diverge and a yellow by the ferry, just like I wanted it

Thanks Bill :wave:

Ok jytte, glad I could help.

I have just setup a little run to test the lift bridge solution, first pic is in surveyor so you can see the setup.

Note the default setting of the invisible points and the signal protecting them. I have the same setup at each end of the bridge so it will work with trains going both ways. You will also need another signal about 100 to 200 metres back which will be yellow when the AI sees it.

In this shot the loco is approaching the bridge which is lowering.
The next shot is after the invisible points have changed and the signal is green.


I also discovered you don't need a trackmark on the bridge, only a trackmark at each end of the bridge about 150 to 200 metres from the bridge. My bridge is lying on the east/west plane so my trackmarks are named Bridge east and Bridge west. It is really quite easy once you get the hang of it. You can also use this setup for swing bridges.

Cheers,
Bill69

deleted, hit the wrong key and posted twice.
Bill69

Hi Bill, thank you so much for going through all this trouble.
I tried this last night as well, all I get is a derailment, because I don't run the train via commands, but manually, and then I don't have a way of changing the direction of the junction. BTW, my bridge is not a vertical lift, it's more of a "tip" bridge, but that shouldn't make any difference. I had a look at a couple of other routes that use these bridges, and they just don't have any signals, maybe this is why? I'm wondering if there's a bridge out there that "disconnects" the track when the bridge is up? Or some kind of trigger that can be set to change a signal as a train approaches (since the bridge opens automatically)? Or maybe I just have to live with it, and have a signal that is "always green" since the bridge will always go down, as opposed to no signal at all.

A silly question, but why do you need to stop the train on approach. the bridge goes down as the train approaches. These type bridges are down unless something needs to go under them in the real world. Bendorsey has done several bridges of this type for ships to pass along and these can be set up to control signals on either end of the bridge. The bridge is down and when a ship approaches the bridge will lift to allow passage of the ship lowering again after the ship has passed. Using triggers and the trigger mutiple signals rule you place triggers on the boat track and as a boat enters the radius it will set the signals to red and remain red until the boat leaves all the triggers radius. by this time the bridge will be lowered and the train can proceed.

No, not silly. I don't need to actually stop the train, as you say the bridge (in this case bendorsey's "lift bridge 40") will lower automatically. It just seems silly to have a signal there "always green" when the train is not near and the bridge is up, it seems equally silly to have no signal at all (even though it's not really needed for the train traffic).
I do actually have a ship track under that bridge, so maybe I should look for the bridge that will allow for that and control signals? I don't recall at the moment, but I think I chose that particular bridge because of the length of it and the limitations of my map. Have to have another look at that.
Thanks.

Hi jytte,

I thought you were using the trainz under AI control. But as you say, if you are driving yourself you have no way of changing the points as you can't see them. I think for cab driving I would have no invisible junction and no signal, just a lowering of the speed limit as you approach the bridge.

Cheers,
Bill69

Hello Bill, I'm actually still working on your idea about the invisible junction, but that lead to another problem with getting the rules to work, which I posted in this thread http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=30088
Thanks for your help, really got me going in the right direction.

Just to finish the saga, I solved the problem, and posted it in this thread: http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=30147

Thanks again.