Looking for Bulk Fertilizer load/unload tracks

I'd like to supply this large open-cut mine with nitrate (for it's explosives use).



The LARS Bulk Fertilizer product (30671:9310290:1) and a gondola that can handle it (SAR OB gon, 1854:6063) look promising.

Does anybody know of a suitable industry-interactive track to load and unload it? I'm looking only for tracks from the DLS that work with TRS2004, fit standard gauge and allow bulk handling.

Bagged fertilizer product (60318:10010:2), loading ramps (60318:1082:1 and 60318:2608:1) and flatcars (SAR FBX 1854:6064:1) were my Plan B option, but the ramps seem to have problems with unloading. Plus it's not exactly realistic to run a large mine with bagged material.

Various ammonium nitrate assets that I found seem to be limited to bags and narrow-gauge systems, so they aren't suitable either.

Any assistance will be appreciated!

- Dean

I know that the virtual world for which you are looking for the bulk fertilizer track is yours, and you can define it to be however you want. Still, if you're not aware, while in the real world ammonium nitrate is often handled as a solid, it is manufactured, not mined, and even if it were mined, combining hydrocarbons even in very small quantites, such as might be given off by the exhaust of the diesel powered mining machinery you have pictured, would result in an explosion. If you're looking to mine a material used in explosives, phosphate would be a more prototypical choice.

I would note further that while Ammonium nitrate is handled as a solid, it is very sensitive to moisture content, and it is most generally handled in covered hoppers when handled in bulk, and in box cars when bagged.

ns

Ask philskene about his track on DLS.

LARS Aggregates 69871:10011:1
ProtoLARS Aggregates 69871:10012:1

Both use Bulk Fertilizer among other things.

Or if you want something more specific, such as Bulk Fertilizer and some other products, ask on TPR's forum about having LARS/ProtoLARS track made or assistance in making some.

Depending on what you want, you could even modify an industry. If Bulk Fertilizer has a texture for its load, you could change the product KUID in the config of a mine and then you have a Bulk Fertilizer mine.

There are also some Coal and Woodchip loader and unloader tracks on DLS, make a copy of one (with permission if you want to use it in a released route) and change the product KUID.

Coal Loader 40 141417:1071
Coal Unloader 20 141417:1076
Woodchip Loader 40 141417:27009
Woodchip Unloader 20 141417:27013

It all depends on what you specifically want.

Slow Down!

8) I think that unless you provide conveyance to the work site, bulk is not your answer.

Bagged A'nitrate, should do the job, transported from boxcar by truck to the worksite.

Diesel fuel, can also be accomadated.

Then, the initial pow, comes from another source...

This is standard mining practices in the US-America.

Gosh, let's see the blast!

My mistake.

<blush>when I wrote about nitrate not being mined, it was because I misread the original post. Never mind that bit, please. However, the part about Ammonium nitrate being sensitive to moisture and to hydrocarbons IS correct, and it is not usually transported in open cars, either in bulk, or bagged. I agree with backyard that Ammonium nitrate being used as an explosive is unlikely to be handled in bulk.



ns

Kind of lost sight of this thread for a couple of days...thanks for the replies.

I've made quite a bit of progress since I last posted largely by learning how Multi Industry New tracks actually work. These tutorials by Aussie NightCrawler opened my eyes.( http://members.westnet.com.au/nightcrawler/trainz/index.htm ).

I learned that you can take Multi Industry New track with animations for bulk coal load/unload and make it use bulk ammonium nitrate product (Edit: this is KUID2:30671:9310230:1 which I forgot to mention above because I mistakenly thought there were no Industry tracks for it). You simply add that product to one of the Multi Industry New queues! (ie. no need to change KUIDs or config files). The piles of black coal are transformed to piles of white ammonium nitrate. It's brilliant, and just what I was after.

And ditto with suitable gondolas or hoppers, they also display the texture/animation of the ammonium nitrate load.

Since all of these are DLS assets, any layout/sessions I make with them could also be made available from the DLS and not require users to fiddle with configs or go searching 3rd party sites for assets. That's also important to me.

Backyard/mjolnir - I probably didn't make it clear, but I wasn't actually looking to mine the ammonium nitrate (AN). I only want to transport it (from a wharf or factory or whatever) to the mine. In principle, this is where it would be combined with Fuel Oil, amongst other things, to make ANFO or emulsion blasting agents. The scale of the operations really mandates handling in bulk (I work in the industry, so I can assure you bulk is both preferable and possible for big open cut mines).

The smallest bags that are practical are 1-tonne "bulka bags" but even these don't compete with a true bulk system if the infrastructure allows it (haven't seen any bulka bag products in Trainz either).

Your point about keeping the AN dry is a good one, although from a Trainz perspective, I do like to see those hoppers filling with material! I've found both open- and covered wagons for this job, so I can now choose how realistic I want to be with it.

OK, problem solved.

- Dean

Here's a pic

This is the riverside wharf where you can just see the piles of white AN prills (formerly coal) and a bulk loader. I figure I can justify open hoppers because it's supposed to be a dry, cold desert area and the trip to the mine takes less than a day....

Dinorius_Redundicus said:

Backyard/mjolnir - I probably didn't make it clear, but I wasn't actually looking to mine the ammonium nitrate (AN). I only want to transport it (from a wharf or factory or whatever) to the mine.

Click to expand...

That it wasn't clear on first reading that you were not looking to "mine" Ammonium nitrate, but merely transport it was not a failure on your part as writer of the original post, but on my part as reader of it.

ns

Dean nice job on the open pit mine. I have attemped something similar and it did not turn out as nice as yours. How did you create the nice cuts in Trainz? And what texture are you using?

I am glad to hear that multiple industry new has solved you problems. I wish more folks would take the time to learn the power of that built in feature. I have done something similar with a deep coal mine. Bring rails and industry supplies to one area and ship coal in another. The other great thing about muti industry new is you can adjust the time it takes to produce or consume a product which is important in developing long sessions.

Download (Helper)









Download (Helper)



These are created by my good friend Alberte(Zatovisualworks)

I know they dont load fertilizer, but they are great still

Download (Helper)

I see that Dean is using my IBTZ hoppers. If you need any help, just ask.

This loader/unloader track (as presented by Caddylars :wave: ) can be customized for any bulk or semi-bulk product you like.



I have compiled a new versión for you, including LARS fertilizer as a new product to load/unload.

You can download it from --> http://www.zatovisualworks.com/trainz/cdp/lars_fertilizer_loader_unloader.cdp

Please tell me if you are actually using it to upload it into the DS. Thank you.

Of course, the dusty ground grill is a scenery object you can find at my stuff at the DS. --> http://www.auran.com/TRS2004/DLS_viewasset.php?AssetID=116222

Alberte :wave:

caddylars said:

I know they dont load fertilizer, but they are great still

Click to expand...

:hehe: They do load/unload fertilizer now, my dear Lars. :wave:

By George...

Dinorius_Redundicus said:

I'd like to supply this large open-cut mine with nitrate (for it's explosives use).

The LARS Bulk Fertilizer product (30671:9310290:1) and a gondola that can handle it (SAR OB gon, 1854:6063) look promising.

Does anybody know of a suitable industry-interactive track to load and unload it? I'm looking only for tracks from the DLS that work with TRS2004, fit standard gauge and allow bulk handling.

Bagged fertilizer product (60318:10010:2), loading ramps (60318:1082:1 and 60318:2608:1) and flatcars (SAR FBX 1854:6064:1) were my Plan B option, but the ramps seem to have problems with unloading. Plus it's not exactly realistic to run a large mine with bagged material.

Various ammonium nitrate assets that I found seem to be limited to bags and narrow-gauge systems, so they aren't suitable either.

Any assistance will be appreciated!

- Dean

Click to expand...

This is one of the instances I come-up to, with not understanding the tense of the writing...

I would say that supply to me means deliver to...and so forth,

But at risk of argument, I'll concede my bad, and we'll go on Further!

I'm sorry about my mis-understanding, I understand now.

@ Alberte/Lars

You have the eagle's eye...well spotted! I'm using quite a lot of items with Spanish origins in this layout - IberTrainz mineral hoppers, load/unload tracks and some lovely off-white Andalucian houses (see picture below). It's supposed to be in Chile, but there are not many items from there on the DLS, so I'm keeping with the Iberian theme as much as I can.

I guess if I dared to request things, I would ask for more assets that explicitly handle and display the Bulk Ammonium Nitrate product. Commercial explosives tend to use this rather than "fertilizer" and being a white granular solid, the coal textures/animations on many of the other assets are not so suitable, even if they can technically handle the product.

If you are making some new things (a very generous offer!) can I gently encourage you to put them on the DLS at the same time as on Ibertrainz? I know this is some sort of territorial issue, but personally I only ever make layouts using items that are already on the DLS (or built-in). So there is no need to wait for me to upload a layout.

Dean

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/337/patagonia088800x600ft1.jpg

p.s I have named the copper mine Tierra Verde. If there was a big sign at the entrance saying "Tierra Verde copper mine" how would it be said in Espanol? My current guess is "Mina de cobre Tierra Verde" but I'm obviously not a native speaker!

sethmcs said:

Dean nice job on the open pit mine....How did you create the nice cuts in Trainz? And what texture are you using?

Click to expand...

Well thank you! All those nights up to 4:30am seem more worthwhile when someone says something like that!

To get the mine benches, it can all be done rather easily.

1. Start by marking the outer perimeter of the pit (what will be the uppermost bench) by following the horizontal contours of the hills with a track or road spline - use lots of spline vertices and assign the same height to them all, and place them where they intersect the surface of the ground. If there is no ground left at the height of the track, and you haven't formed a complete loop yet, then that's the end of that bench.

2. Apply the button that lifts or cuts the ground to match the height of the spline. Delete the spline. That's the first bench done.

3. Assuming you are making a pit (rather then a hillside rice paddy) the next step is to level all the terrain within the loop of the bench just made. This simply makes it easier to see what you're doing when you cut down to the next level. Here's a picture showing that in progress..I've made a couple of upper benches and I'm about to level all that material in the middle there...



4. For all benches below the first one, you need to decide on how wide and how high the benches will be. This will dictate the average slope of the pit walls, how wide the haul roads can be etc. I went for a 30m bench height and about 20m width.

5. Lay the next spline points to follow the contours of the bench above, and assign heights that will give you the amount of drop you need. It's worth trying this on a small section first to make sure you have allowed enough "stand off" distance from the upper bench so that you don't dig too far into it when you do the cut.

6. Repeat step 5 until you have a nice mine pit!

7. You can also use splines to sculpt some of the benches to insert haul road ramps. Talking to some mining engineers the other day, they told me a haul truck could handle a 1-in-15 (7%) gradient quite reasonably, so that gives you something to shoot for.

As for textures, that's really hard to answer. I use a lot. The basic brown texture for the whole layout is Gestein63 I think. I then mix in other textures depending on what the terrain is. For rockfaces such as river cliffs and the sides of the mine benches, I find rock textures with a layered structure work best. I wish there more more available. For the other surfaces, I use rocky/sandy/muddy textures in vast array. I'm trying to get a green/blue undertone within the pit, since it's a copper mine, so will start with 'bluerockface' and add structure and more subtle colours on top of that.

The list below contains textures that are likely to have ended up in the mine somewhere. The vegetation textures (Desert Brush and Desert Plateau series by David Drake) might sound out of place, but apart from being the short scrub on the flat lands, they actually contain some nice rocks which impart that lumpy feel to the terrain. These work well even in a vegetation-free zone such as a mine pit if used sparingly. Sorry I don't know how to insert a proper vertical list here, but all these are the original names and they are all on the DLS.

Dinorius_Redundicus said:

@ Alberte/Lars

If you are making some new things (a very generous offer!) can I gently encourage you to put them on the DLS at the same time as on Ibertrainz?

p.s I have named the copper mine Tierra Verde. If there was a big sign at the entrance saying "Tierra Verde copper mine" how would it be said in Espanol? My current guess is "Mina de cobre Tierra Verde" but I'm obviously not a native speaker!

Click to expand...

Hi, Dean.

No worries about that. All my personal stuff eventually ends up at the DS.

I'm making an Ammonium Nitrate unloader and customizing a green hopper for you: Cobres Tierra Verde

Yes, "Mina de cobre Tierra Verde" is quite right.

Stay tuned, I like your approach to this ( :hehe: even though Chile is very different from Iberian landscapes).

Alberte :wave:

You're an excellent man Zato, thanks.

Just some extra notes for the sake of any future readers of this thread;

In all the confusion of the earlier posts, I forgot to mention the kuid of the 'bulk ammonium nitrate' product that I originally wanted to use. It is KUID2: 30671:9310230:1. This is the one we should be working with if it's bulk explosives you have in mind.

The 'bulk fertilizer' KUID2:30671:9310290:1 works too but it is designed for covered wagons. When you use it in open wagons, the texture looks like a coloured plastic bag, not the actual material.

...thanks...

8) Dinorius_Redundicus, for the tips on creating the terraces for strip mining.

Also, your selection of mining equipment is Globally correct in my opinion(and there seams to be endless possibilities when your tired late at night).

And I know the time your spending on textures...and they look terrific.

Your hired!

For Dean and anybody else interested

My promise is good word... :hehe: My End of the Year Gift...

Special dedication to Dean...


Download from --> http://web.ibertrainz.eu/descargas/mina_verde_pack.cdp

(No fear, Dean, all of them will be available at the DS as soon as the Brisbane threesome updates the contents uploaded [after their deserved holidays, I'm afraid]).

Enjoy it all. I love your project.

Alberte :wave:

Oh wow! Your word is indeed good. With one stroke you have brought Trainz mining into the 21st Century! Thank you so much Zato. I like the way everything is drowning in piles of ammonium nitrate as far as the eye can see! The environmental officer would have a heart attack!:hehe:

Tell me, did you also adjust the unloading animation for those bulk hoppers? The originals were emitting big clouds of black dust from the side-opening doors. Ammonium nitrate will of course be white dust. If the IBTZ people are after any more ideas for mining-related assets to make, there are plenty which have been so far ignored by the rest of the modelling community...

- rail tankers for hot liquid ammonium nitrate solution.

- rail tankers for liquid ammonium nitrate emulsion (that's an intermediate in modern bulk explosive manufacture).

- trucks which mix-and-pump bulk explosives (there's only one example on the DLS).

- bulk explosive manufacturing plants and depots (these are often built on or near big mine sites).

- an ammonium nitrate factory (includes modules for making ammonia, nitric acid and then ammonium nitrate as solid "prills" and/or hot, concentrated solution). They can also make urea (another fertilizer), so it would be a good example of a multi-product industry.

But enough of my dreaming, I gotta go, I'm off to Ibertrainz!

- Dean