TS2009 or TS2010?

[RRSignal]

I had started to post in the thread, Is This Game for Me? but decided to start a new thread that may answer questions for others who are in the same predicament as me.

I found this statement to be a little unsettling:

Originally Posted by FootplatePhil

If your mainly interested in driving you may be better of waiting for 2010, which is meant to be available in a few weeks. TS2009 was mainly aimed at content creators. It does not contain much new content above 2006, which you already have. As you have noted, since the release of 2009 there have been 3 add on packs announced which add new routes. Apparently these work just as well with 2010.

I am in the opposite situation as the original poster in that thread: I will likely be more interested in creating content than actually driving/engineering. After some debate between going with TS2009 WBE or TS2010, I pre-ordered 2010. I'm certain it will have bugs and will give it a few months for patches to come out but I want to develop the best content I can and don't want to have to redevelop it for TS2011 or TS2012, etc.

However, if TS2009 is indeed a better tool for content creation, do you feel that I might be better off developing for 2009? Am I reading too deeply into FootplatePhil's statement?

Also, are there any other tools (3DS, GMax, etc.) that you might consider must-haves? Which versions?

(P.S. I know most folks besides the Auran people haven't actually used TS2010 - I'm just asking for opinions based on past experience or expectations.)

[schweitzerdude]

After spending some time reading the TRS2010 info page, what caught my attention in 2010 was the ability to use layers in Surveyor. If you spend a lot of time in Surveyor as I do and try to figure out what spline points go to what spline in a complex area, this might be something useful. I plan on going from TRS2006 right to 2010 for this reason alone. Just my opinion.

[johnwhelan]

Basically TS2010 is TS2009 with Speedtree. If you have a read in trainzdev there seems to be an idea that TS2009 will be patched to TS2010 but won't have Speedtree.

So basically if you are creating no difference unless you are creating layouts. I'd go ts2010 just to get speedtree but that's just me.

Cheerio John

[bchester]

Hello from Victoria BC Canada,

Do to a long, hard battle with cancer and a very difficult move, I have been away from the boards for a while and have, sadly, not kept right up to speed on the new 2010 edition. By the name of EE I would take it that 2010 will not have the surveyor module. A quick look - and I do mean a really quick one - at the 2010 web site did not say otherwise. So, if you want to create routes then you may want to consider 2009.

A few points about 2009 though:
- A feature change which modified the way the alpha channel is handled has resulted in a lot of disgruntled users. This feature causes a lot of excellent items such as trees, telegraph wires, some spline objects and other items to visually impair the view. Running in compatablility mode as opposed to native mode will "correct" the alpha channel "problem" but you lose the enhancements of native mode. Other forum threads cover this topic and you will find ways of improving it.
- several service packs are available and need to be applied - preferably before you start creating anything.
- Some items that you download from the DLS and other 3rd party sites may not work correctly. Again some feature "improvements" make items created for earlier versions of trainz appear to be broken. Most errors can be corrected with a little effort - Some with a great deal and some just don't seem to be correctable.
- Steam engine physics have changed again from previous versions and it is hit or miss to get them "up to steam" . Some are perfect as supplied.
- Trees are the biggest issue.

Many folks here will tell you to go to 2004, others will say 2006, others will recommend Trainz Classics (particulary TC3). What ever you choose to create in, you will find great satisfaction with-in the limits of that platform. You will also be able to add on from the DLS or 3rd party sites. Thoroughly research the forums - you will find almost all the answers you need - few things can not be found with a proper search.

If you purchase 2009 - get speed tree too. This will avoid the alpha channel issue - check the license thoroughly though. I have not looked at it and hopefully Auran has considered how shared layouts will require the assets. Not all of us will buy into speed tree so what ever you create may need to have treez replaced when a layout is uploaded/downloaded. We will all have to adapt.

If you plan to create building, rolling stock, etc you will need a 3d application. if you have never worked in a 3d cadd program, look at Blender. It is a free open source application with lots of features. GMax can be used but is limited and if you have to learn, you may as well learn on a platform that has more features. 3dsMax is a wonderful product but is too expensive for the average person to use. I personally spent the $5000 to purchase it and am converting all my creations to it for finalizing. Check the forums - there is lots and lots of posts with a wealth of information.

Finally check the Trainzdev web site and wiki - more searches of the forum will reveal the addresses.

Anyway, a lot of folks will complain this post is too long - I will add to this thread as thoughts come up.

Have fun

Bricey

[narrowgauge]

Originally TS2010 was going to be TS2009 Engineers Edition and was not going to include Surveyor. It is now going to include Surveyor and various other goodies that are not in TS2009. It is reasonable to suggest that as it has been built on the TS2009 code which has been extensively debugged over the past year, TS2010 will be the best to get.

You will need to check whether it includes the same builtin content as TS2009, my guess is that it will. It does include trees made using Speedtree but does not provide any means of making these.

My recommendation is to buy TS2010.

Peter

[FootplatePhil]

Originally Posted by RRSignal

:
Am I reading too deeply into FootplatePhil's statement?

Apologies if I have confused you. I did not mean to imply 2009 is/will be better than 2010 for creators. 2010 will apparently be a lot like 2009, but with extras such as Speedtree, some new tools, and new Routes. The point I was trying to make is that if you have 2006, and your main interest is driving, then 2009 does not offer much you don't already have. But 2010 does.

Clear as mud ?

Phil

(PS: I have 2009, but will be preordering 2010 next pay)

[IsambardKingdomBrunel]

You need both.

TS2009 for the old assets.

TS2010 for the new features and routes.

IKB.

[airtime]

Looking through the Trainz 2010 site and from what I've heard, Trainz 2010 will be the best option to go for,

They have updated loads of engines from around the world, and updated and added loads of new rolling stock.

Plus the routes will be more realistic and longer, for example... there is a new route called Doncaster E.C.M.L, now it only says Doncaster area, but from what I hear, it's going to be the entire route from London Kings Cross station to York, featuring the Intercity 125 HST which has been upgraded, the engine is featured on my Avatar.

Not only have UK locomotives and rolling stock been upgraded, but so have U.S.A and Australian locomotives and routes and rolling stock had the upgrade treatment, plus with the arrival of speedtree, this will make Trainz 2010 even better.

Surveyor is included in Trainz 2010...

Hope this helps

Joe Airtime

[johnwhelan]

Originally Posted by IsambardKingdomBrunel

You need both.

TS2009 for the old assets.

TS2010 for the new features and routes.

IKB.

My understanding was TS2010 is TS2009 plus speedtree and a few other items so all the TS2009 assets are included in TS2010.

Cheerio John

[IsambardKingdomBrunel]

Can't say John sorry, NDA.

But i have TS2009 and i have pre-ordered TS2010.

Mike.

[Mike10]

Originally Posted by johnwhelan

Basically TS2010 is TS2009 with Speedtree.

Although you keep saying that it isn't true.

http://www.ts2010.com/features.php

Mike.

[aardvark1]

Originally Posted by johnwhelan

My understanding was TS2010 is TS2009 plus speedtree and a few other items so all the TS2009 assets are included in TS2010.

Cheerio John

Originally Posted by Mike10

Although you keep saying that it isn't true.

http://www.ts2010.com/features.php

Mike.

Is it any wonder why Forum users who ask questions get confused.

Have fun,

[johnwhelan]

Originally Posted by Mike10

Although you keep saying that it isn't true.

http://www.ts2010.com/features.php

Mike.

Looking more closely I have to agree with you. I probably based my opinion on posts by Chris in Traindev.

We're not removing any existing capabilities, we're just adding support for SpeedTree in addition to the existing stuff. This does mean that the pre-TS2009 tree types are completely obsolete, although content such as that which TNM and Jankvis are creating is certainly quite reasonable - it probably won't be as pretty as the stuff that SpeedTree puts out, but one size doesn't suit everybody and you won't be able to make your own SpeedTree assets. We will continue to work with content creators and extend the capabilities of our existing systems in addition to offering SpeedTree.

We will not be adding any new materials for standard meshes in TS2010.

We are not changing water in TS2010.

Yes, TS2010 content compatibility is directly equivalent to TS2009 content compatibility.

and I thought there was another one somewhere about TS2009 being patched to bring it up to TS2010 apart from speedtree.

Looks like the idea of one standard version has gone down the plug hole, is it now three versions in a year? I think that is getting a bit pricey, now where did I put my copy of TRS2004?

Cheerio John

[kill55098]

Im going to stick with my 09 version seems 2010 is the same as 09 just has better graphics

[Paulsw2]

Well I've taken the plunge and pre-ordered TS2010 and I've already downloaded the S&C add-on to go with it. I've enjoyed TRS06 and TC3, so I hope the new one is a worthy successor. I'll be happy if it runs faster.

Paul