64 bit vs 32 bit

[fwassner]

Hi;
I am running TS2009_SP2, soon to be TS2010 on a nearly 5yr old system with the following specs:

Asus P5AD2-E Premium mobo
3GB DDR2 RAM (533 or 600)
3.4Ghz Intel 550 processor (32 bit architecture)
BFG GeForce 9800 GTX+ 512 video

Windows 7 Ultimate (currently 32 bit)

I cannot afford a new system at this time, but am considering upgrading the processor (and maybe the RAM).
The mobo will support the EM64T technology, so I am thinking of changing out the processor to one that is EM64T compatible and running Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit.

Will I see a marked improvement in TS2009 and TS2010, or would I be wasting my money?

Thanks

FW

[SuperFudd]

More RAM would be of little or no help.
If your main board can handle a modern cpu then a cpu upgrade could be a big help, in my not so humble opinion.

[fwassner]

Originally Posted by SuperFudd

More RAM would be of little or no help.
If your main board can handle a modern cpu then a cpu upgrade could be a big help, in my not so humble opinion.

When you say "modern" CPU, I'm thinking multi-core, but my board does not support those. It will support LGA775 PCB 04A or 04B, which are 90nm.
So, the best I can do is get the 64 bit architecture on a single core with hyper-threading.
If I do that, I think I would also upgrade from 3GB to 4GB DDR2 RAM.

The whole cost of the upgrade would have to be less than $150.
I may be able to get a "reconditioned" 64 bit CPU and the extra RAM for that, but whether or not it would help TS performance will be the biggest factor in my decision to upgrade.

Thanks for your help

FW

[martinvk]

In general, more CPU, more RAM, more GPU will get you better performance but there is a point of diminishing returns. That means each addition will get you less of an increase than you got from the previous addition. When you stop adding is mainly dependent on how deep your pockets are.

The other thing to consider is the game code itself. Unless, for example, it can use multiple processors, adding more of them will have little influence on the game other than allowing you to delegate the extra processors for other tasks.

So don't jump too quickly on the upgrade bandwagon. It may help but how much and at what cost?

[whitepass]

You are using DDR2 RAM but only 3GB witch will make your MB use single side RAM, 2GB or 4GB and you get double side RAM that is your RAM will run 2x faster witch you should see in Trainz. Note for DDR3 you need 3GB, 6GB, or 12GB.

[johnwhelan]

Originally Posted by fwassner

Hi;
I am running TS2009_SP2, soon to be TS2010 on a nearly 5yr old system with the following specs:

Asus P5AD2-E Premium mobo
3GB DDR2 RAM (533 or 600)
3.4Ghz Intel 550 processor (32 bit architecture)
BFG GeForce 9800 GTX+ 512 video

Windows 7 Ultimate (currently 32 bit)

I cannot afford a new system at this time, but am considering upgrading the processor (and maybe the RAM).
The mobo will support the EM64T technology, so I am thinking of changing out the processor to one that is EM64T compatible and running Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit.

Will I see a marked improvement in TS2009 and TS2010, or would I be wasting my money?

Thanks

FW

http://asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=nTHCKOGeEqArj1uY

That should bring up the supported cpus. TS2009 /TS2010 prefers dual core. You should be able to run 800 fsb memory according to ASUS, check what you have with Belarc. Switching in the fastest cpu I can see listed and that should give you 10% more.

In general 32 bit systems have less overhead than 64 bit so I'd stay 32 bit.

cpu comparison charts are here

http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/c...06-CPU,36.html

your motherboard does support dual channel so make sure you have pairs of memory modules.

In a nut shell there isn't much you can do that is cost effective without changing the motherboard other than checking the memory is 800 fsb and in pairs.

Cheerio John

[FirstSoloFlight]

I'm running and AMD2 6000+ with 4GB of DDR2-RAM, a MSI 9600GT 512mb GPU on WIN7 x64... and other than some lack of 64bit support by some software, and hardware (ASUS monitors) I'd have to say that 64bit has really impressed me.

Now that WIN7 has been officially released you'll find that in a few months, most older technology that can be supported by a patch to work with 64bit will be covered.

A positive move in my opinion. Loading speeds are much faster, WIN7 x64 utilises a much better system of handling multi-core support for games, even Trainz. I've noticed a very big improvement overall.

Long story short, go for it.

[jrockey]

I've been running Trainz 06, Classic and '09 using a 64 bit Vista laptop for nearly a year now, with very satisfactory results. However, there is one problem issue that still isn't solved; AND IT DOESN'T APPEAR THAT IT EVER WILL BE!

The Raildriver "Desktop Train Cab Controller" - an optional add on control unit for various railroad simulators (most versions of Trainz included) is NOT compatible with 64 bit Windows, either Vista or Windows 7. From what I've been able to learn, P.I. Engineering (the producer of the product) is NOT EVER planning to write the 64 bit code for the hardware drivers that would be needed to run the Raildriver device on a a 64 bit system of any kind.

I don't own a Raildriver unit, but if I did, I'd be disappointed. So, DON'T be tempted to adopt 64 bit Vista or 64 bit Windows 7 for any computer you intend to attach a Raildriver device to - it won't function. If you already have a Raildriver and like it - STICK WITH 32 BIT when you upgrade your OS - Raildriver is 32 bit ONLY.

[meatloaf747]

Originally Posted by jrockey

I don't own a Raildriver unit, but if I did, I'd be disappointed. So, DON'T be tempted to adopt 64 bit Vista or 64 bit Windows 7 for any computer you intend to attach a Raildriver device to - it won't function. If you already have a Raildriver and like it - STICK WITH 32 BIT when you upgrade your OS - Raildriver is 32 bit ONLY.

Good advice. Another post on the matter; - http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=47628
Cheers, Mac...

[fwassner]

Originally Posted by whitepass

You are using DDR2 RAM but only 3GB witch will make your MB use single side RAM, 2GB or 4GB and you get double side RAM that is your RAM will run 2x faster witch you should see in Trainz. Note for DDR3 you need 3GB, 6GB, or 12GB.

I was not aware that memory needed to be in 2GB chunks for DDR2.
I thought it was just filling 2 or 4 (not 1 or 3) slots.

I do have all 4 slots populated with DDR2.
2ea 1GB, 2ea 512MB.

If I were to upgrade to 4GB, I would remove the two 512MB, replace with 2ea 1GB.

Then again, the 32 bit processor isn't going to use more than 3GB, is it. Currently, Windows says that 2.97GB is available. If I add another GB, that figure probably won't change, but if you say I will get 2x faster memory transfer, then it's probably worth it.

FW

[fwassner]

Actually, after re-evaluating my gaming situation, I now believe that my HDD system is the bottleneck.
I seem to get decent frame rates; don't see much flicker, but there is a lot of "stuttering", which always seems to get worse and worse as time goes on.
I use manual defrag, using Diskeeper 2009, as the automatic defrag mode seems to slow things down even more.

But after researching new SATA technology, I find that I can buy a 500GB SATA drive with 32MB cache, compared to my two 160GB drives with only 8MB cache.
These are configured as RAID0, but I don't think I'm seeing any performance enhancement due to the RAID.

So, what I think I'm going to do is buy a new 500GB drive with 32MB cache, install it as the main drive, and get rid of the RAID.
I will create several partitions; one for Win XP, one for Win 7, one for data.

What cluster size is the most efficient for Trainz (TS2009 and TS2010)?

I think the new HDD is a smart move, since my current drives are almost 5yrs old, and sure enough will fail.
I can still keep the old drives in the system (have plenty of SATA channels) for non-critical data.

What do you think?

FW

[johnwhelan]

Originally Posted by fwassner

Actually, after re-evaluating my gaming situation, I now believe that my HDD system is the bottleneck.
I seem to get decent frame rates; don't see much flicker, but there is a lot of "stuttering", which always seems to get worse and worse as time goes on.
I use manual defrag, using Diskeeper 2009, as the automatic defrag mode seems to slow things down even more.

But after researching new SATA technology, I find that I can buy a 500GB SATA drive with 32MB cache, compared to my two 160GB drives with only 8MB cache.
These are configured as RAID0, but I don't think I'm seeing any performance enhancement due to the RAID.

So, what I think I'm going to do is buy a new 500GB drive with 32MB cache, install it as the main drive, and get rid of the RAID.
I will create several partitions; one for Win XP, one for Win 7, one for data.

What cluster size is the most efficient for Trainz (TS2009 and TS2010)?

I think the new HDD is a smart move, since my current drives are almost 5yrs old, and sure enough will fail.
I can still keep the old drives in the system (have plenty of SATA channels) for non-critical data.

What do you think?

FW

Sounds very sensible, I agree with your thoughts on memory and slots. I don't think going to 4 gigs will gain you anything but check the fsb on the memory and cpu.

Cheerio John

[fwassner]

Originally Posted by johnwhelan

Sounds very sensible, I agree with your thoughts on memory and slots. I don't think going to 4 gigs will gain you anything but check the fsb on the memory and cpu.

Cheerio John

The CPU has FSB 800Mhz. The memory is DDR2 533.
Currently, the CPU is over-clocked, running FSB 881Mhz. System is stable at OC of 10%, but not more.

The HDD I want to order will cost me only $59 after mfr rebate. That's incredible; 500GB for only $59.
I remember when I bought a 40MB (that's Megabyte, not Gigabyte) SCSI external HDD for my Apple 2e computer for $400!!
Guess I'm giving away my age

FW

[johnwhelan]

Originally Posted by fwassner

The CPU has FSB 800Mhz. The memory is DDR2 533.
Currently, the CPU is over-clocked, running FSB 881Mhz. System is stable at OC of 10%, but not more.

The HDD I want to order will cost me only $59 after mfr rebate. That's incredible; 500GB for only $59.
I remember when I bought a 40MB (that's Megabyte, not Gigabyte) SCSI external HDD for my Apple 2e computer for $400!!
Guess I'm giving away my age

FW

I have to think about the maths, dual channel so 800 fsb into 533*2 should be OK.

I remember when we upgraded the computer from 1k of memory to 2k. I forget what the cost was but it was something horrendous. Mind you we still had to feed it paper tape and get the results off in paper tape.

Cheerio John

[whitepass]

RailDriver dose work in Vista 64 and Win7 64 with beta driver, there is a bug that will "open for edit" the engine file(s) of the loco(s) that you run. Have been using in Vista for over a year.