Trainz Engine Editor

this link is good but i like a real engine ..i need what exact valeur i put in evry notch 1-8...please can sameone send me this great tool ..:confused:
thanks


tee_ss.jpg
 
Last edited:
You could ask your question in the Swedish language section. The guy who made is from Sweden. Someone there may know where to download it.
 
I have a simple spreadsheet that will generate the throttle-power table for a diesel enginespec. It can be downloaded from http://home.comcast.net/~eng95/Revisedenginespec.xls

Billegulla has a spreadsheet that generates the values for the steam container in a steam loco enginespec. It is available from the download station as Universal steam e-specs 09,<kuid2:81997:51009:3>

Bob Weber
 
rweber95 said:
I have a simple spreadsheet that will generate the throttle-power table for a diesel enginespec. It can be downloaded from http://home.comcast.net/~eng95/Revisedenginespec.xls

Billegulla has a spreadsheet that generates the values for the steam container in a steam loco enginespec. It is available from the download station as Universal steam e-specs 09,<kuid2:81997:51009:3>

Bob Weber
Click to expand...

1000000thanks very much!!!!wow!!! ...and about tractive effort (TE) ..i put continuous or starting ?


RS1 Data Sheet :

Tractive Effort (starting) 60,000 lbs @ 25%
OR
Tractive Effort (continuous): 34,000 lbs @ 8 mph



thanks .

*****************************************

i try this now on sd40-2 (TS12) Icopy past valeur to config .text ...but train in notsh 1-8 dont move ..and load meter dont move too :eek:??!!!!
 
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Looks like I omitted a closing bracket when I revised the spreadsheet. The bottom of the notch 8 list should look like this:

22.8 74.4
25.9 65.4
29.1 58.4
29.1 0.0
}
}

Bob Weber

Edit: The spreadsheet has been corrected.
 
Last edited:
Spec sheets such as those at http://www.thedieselshop.us usually quote two TE values.
For example, an SD40-2 is quoted as having 3000HP, max speed 65mph, TE= 92000 lb @25% or 82100 lb @ 11 mph and weight=368000lbs.
The 92000 @25% comes from multiplying 368000 X .25=92000 lbs.
The throttle power curves in the spreadsheet use the constant TE rating value.
The TE=82100 lb @11 mph value is based on the typical value of power available at the drive wheels and can be verified as follows.
The equation used is TE (in kilonewtons) X speed (meters per second) = power (kilowatts).
3000 HP = 3000 X .746 KW/HP = 2238 KW
Allowing 20% of the available energy to power the compressors, cooling fans and aux systems leaves 80% for the drive wheels.
.8 X 2238 = 1790.4 KW
11 mph = 4.9 meters per second (m/s).
1790.4/4.9 = 365.3 KN = 82122 lb which rounds to 82100 as quoted on the webpage.
The speed/TE curves in my spreadsheet are derived from the above equation. Since diesel locos are a constant power machine, the TE decreases as speed increases.

Bob Weber
 
rweber95 said:
Looks like I omitted a closing bracket when I revised the spreadsheet. The bottom of the notch 8 list should look like this:

22.8 74.4
25.9 65.4
29.1 58.4
29.1 0.0
}
}

Bob Weber

Edit: The spreadsheet has been corrected.
Click to expand...

wow!!!work now very very realistic & smooth acceleration ..100000000000thanks now i can enjoy with trainz :clap:

rweber95 said:
Spec sheets such as those at http://www.thedieselshop.us usually quote two TE values.
For example, an SD40-2 is quoted as having 3000HP, max speed 65mph, TE= 92000 lb @25% or 82100 lb @ 11 mph and weight=368000lbs.
The 92000 @25% comes from multiplying 368000 X .25=92000 lbs.
The throttle power curves in the spreadsheet use the constant TE rating value.
The TE=82100 lb @11 mph value is based on the typical value of power available at the drive wheels and can be verified as follows.
The equation used is TE (in kilonewtons) X speed (meters per second) = power (kilowatts).
3000 HP = 3000 X .746 KW/HP = 2238 KW
Allowing 20% of the available energy to power the compressors, cooling fans and aux systems leaves 80% for the drive wheels.
.8 X 2238 = 1790.4 KW
11 mph = 4.9 meters per second (m/s).
1790.4/4.9 = 365.3 KN = 82122 lb which rounds to 82100 as quoted on the webpage.
The speed/TE curves in my spreadsheet are derived from the above equation. Since diesel locos are a constant power machine, the TE decreases as speed increases.

Bob Weber
Click to expand...

another big thanks for useful info:Y:
 
Bob, just dl'd the revised spreadsheet and noticed the velocities for notches 2 thru 8 are hard coded and not calculated based on input values.

One question - have you done any testing in TS9 thru 12 to check the power at the rails based on the throttle power curves? I normally don't test diesel power - just steam - but I did some recently and it appeared to me that the game reduced the curve values by approx 20%. At least I seem to recall that. I'll have to go back and either find those tests result or run another set. I'm pretty sure in TRS06 and previous it used 100% of the curve values.

Thanks for your work on the spreadsheet - I have your old version too. TEE was a good program but increasingly difficult (if not impossible) for new people to obtain.

Bob Pearson
 
rweber95 said:
Bob,
Try it again. I revised the revisedspreadsheet.xls.

Bob Weber
Click to expand...

very magic job rweber95

i start test with light HP .. like GE U6B..U10B & CD 720 067

source ...CD withdrawn diesel locomotives and shunters Old class T435.0, freight locomotives and shunters

Power [kW] =551 =740hp

Tractive Effort [kN]=160 = 36000lbf

Max.Speed [km/h] =60 ~ 40mph

i convert this with this great convert ..you can download here

i put this valeur to Revisedenginespec.xls ...max speed & tractive effort result is amazing ..wow!!!!


i will set all my favorite loco GE & EMD ( SD7 to SD90)with this great & magic tool ...100000000000000000thanks again :Y::clap:
 
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finaly ...wow!!!..i can download now the TTE (trainz engine editor 1.06)...a nice sweden man upload the TTEV1.06 ..download here

can generate dynamic brake too:clap:

545.png



in trainz an SD40-2 (solo) in flat terrain can run at 60 mph with first notch (what the top speed in 1notch in flat terrain locomotive only ?

for me ...i think maybe the top speed here is about 6 mph...i dont think locomotive only (solo) can run 60mph in flat terrain (grade =0 and no wind ) in real world !!!!...maybe ..i dont know...but i need a real train driver for this question.

i said this question because in trainz 1notch top speed can run at 60mph.
when i know the real locomotive top speed first notch i can after set the green graph (notch 1)at 0 after 3.6 mph ...

thanks
 
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Theoretically, notch 1 provides one eighth of the engine/generator power to the traction motors. Since Tractive effort (TE) = Power divided by Speed, a constant level of power provides exponentially decreasing TE as the speed increases. Speed will increase until the TE = the rolling resistance of the engine (or consist). This effect is the same for each notch of the throttle. The only difference is the higher notches provide more power so the acceleration (rate of speed increase per unit time) is greater but the limiting speed is still power available vs power required at that speed (rolling resistance). If the limiting speed for a given throttle notch is too high then you should also look at the these parameters in the motor container of the enginespec:
surface-area 80
moving-friction-coefficient 0.03
air-drag-coefficient 0.00017

Bob Weber
 
Last edited:
RPearson said:
...
One question - have you done any testing in TS9 thru 12 to check the power at the rails based on the throttle power curves? I normally don't test diesel power - just steam - but I did some recently and it appeared to me that the game reduced the curve values by approx 20%. At least I seem to recall that. I'll have to go back and either find those tests result or run another set. I'm pretty sure in TRS06 and previous it used 100% of the curve values.

Thanks for your work on the spreadsheet - I have your old version too. TEE was a good program but increasingly difficult (if not impossible) for new people to obtain.

Bob Pearson
Click to expand...
Tough when you have to quote your own post.

Sorry for the delay but I finally went back and ran a new test in TS10 for the diesel engine spec. I didn't find the old tests I ran but the results of the latest test were same as I remembered.

The tests I just ran were in TS10. I have a special car with a custom script I wrote that logs the performance of the loco. It can be used with diesel or steam locos. It records the resistance forces for the entire train and tractive effort produced by the loco at set intervals. The games scripting api provides a maxium tractive effort value for the loco while my script calculates instantaneous values at the specified time intervals.

The test used a set of throttle-power curves that provided a constant tractive force at each notch setting over the specified speed range. The notch 8 setting was 304.388 kN. The maximun tractive effort reported by the scripting api for the loco was 243.51 kN. The average instantaneous TE logged by the script while running in notch 8 was 245.237 kN.

The value reported by the scripting api is exactly 80% of the value specified in the throttle-power curve. The average TE calculated by the script is 80.57% of the value in the curves.

From the tests it is apparent to me that the game currently uses 80% of the tractive force values specified in the throttle-power container. I think enginespec developers should do their own testing to verify this.

Based on the above, the values in the throttle-power container should be equal to the power delievered by the diesel to the generator and auxilaries. Generally 80% of that is delievered to the drive axles by the traction motors. Since Trainz is programmed to use 80% of the input value you don't have to do anything else. But if you want to use some other efficency then you have to take into account that the 80% factor is hard coded into Trainz and adjust the input accordingly.

Bob Pearson
 
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RPearson said:
The test used a set of throttle-power curves that provided a constant tractive force at each notch setting over the specified speed range. The notch 8 setting was 304.388 kN. The maximun tractive effort reported by the scripting api for the loco was 243.51 kN. The average instantaneous TE logged by the script while running in notch 8 was 245.237 kN.

The value reported by the scripting api is exactly 80% of the value specified in the throttle-power curve. The average TE calculated by the script is 80.57% of the value in the curves.

From the tests it is apparent to me that the game currently uses 80% of the tractive force values specified in the throttle-power container. I think enginespec developers should do their own testing to verify this.

. Since Trainz is programmed to use 80% of the input value you don't have to do anything else. But if you want to use some other efficency then you have to take into account that the 80% factor is hard coded into Trainz and adjust the input accordingly.
Bob Pearson
Click to expand...

i see this and yes ...engine editor TTE use 80% and TS 12 use 80% of total TE now ..then we should add 40% to TE value befort put in TTE

at the moment i use the Excel generator throttle-power of rweber95 (my favorite... and thanks you again )

about TTE now ...i chearch how do a dynamic brack graph & import data config .text ...i think TTE cant generate dynamic brake!

*********************************************************
NB sory for pic because i delete my gmail account last week ..i will fix image in my new account gmail .
****************************************************
thanks



i found this in other forum by RPearson ..thanks very much ..now ic an import dynamic brake & throttle into TTE without {" error:Y:


RPearson Posted: Friday, 25 March 2011, 03:07
Stork, it was writtten for UTC so not too surprising - the basic mechanics programmed in is still good though. From my testing I concluded that Trainz uses the Davis formula for resistance calcs for the most part though since TC3 the axle component has changed to values that seems to be more characteristic of journal bearnings rather than roller. Though with some good judgement you can use TEE to ball park the resistance Trainz calcs and determine the engine performance in the game.

I've found that you can get it to read the throttle and dynamic brake containers of most configs if you edit them so the "{"s, open braces, within the container are not on a separate line but moved back onto the end of the line with the container id.

Edit this:
throttle-power
{
0
{
0 0
}

1
{
0 165
2.2 83
4.4 55
6.6 41
8.8 33
13 0
}
...

to this:
throttle-power {
0 {
0 0
}

1 {
0 165
2.2 83
4.4 55
6.6 41
8.8 33
13 0
}
...

The format it writes out is not significant since CM3 can read it and formats the data correctly to suit its current preferred style.

It only works with throttle-power and dynamic-brake containers so it needs an existing config to insert them into so all the other data is there to make up a valid config.

Sorry I can't help with generating dynamic braking curves. I don't know that much about it. I'm sure if Mats knew more about it he'd have programmed it in too. Best hope would be to find performance curves on-line someplace. Lacking that if you know what power was generated with the traction motors acting as generators during dynamic brakng you could generate throttle curves based on that and modify the low speed portions to match what typically happens with dynamic braking.

It might be a bit dated and far from perfect but looking around I don't see much else.

Bob Pearson

PS. I should add that TEE uses ~82% of the hp figure you enter to calculate the traction at the rail head. This approximates the typical power loses from prime mover to generator to traction motor to rail head. If you're working with other efficiencies in the power transmission of your particular loco or actual power delivered to the rail you must take this into account.
Mats used the following to calc the tractive force:
T = HP x 308 / V
with T in lbs, HP hp and V in mph the constant should be 375 exactly.

A better formula would be T = HP x 375 x eff / V
eff being the known efficiency of the power transmission.

IF you had the power at the rail head the eff would be 1.0 and you'd have to adjust the HP input to suit by multiplying the HP by 375 x 1.0 / 308.

In the general case for TEE you'd have HP input = HP x 375 x eff / 308
_________________
Click to expand...
heres import dynamic brake pic from my pc



TEE.jpg
 
Last edited:
DajounTunisia, you've been busy.

I never worked a lot with diesels in Trainz. It's always been steam for me. Setting up the kind engine especs for diesels/electrics is pretty straight forward compared to kind steam-engine especs. Unfortunately the docs available with Trainz never quite give you all the info you really need. You're left to doing a lot of testing in the game to see how the "black box" responds when you poke at it under various conditions. I don't recall ever reading anything describing whether the power-throttle curves represent tractive force at the rail or some fictious force based on what you'd get if the full rated power were available at the rail. The technical docs they used to publish refer to it as power but it's force not power.

Currently all the tests I've run in TS 09, 10 and 12 indicated that the game applies an 0.80 factor to the tractive force values you specify in the throttle-power container. I just revised the script to work in TRS2006 and ran the dynamometer car behind a diesel and it also shows the same 0.80 factor applied to the values in the throttle-power container.

Basically for current versions you should base the throttle-power values on the full rated power of the diesel if the 80% efficiency built into Trainz is ok for your case. If you want to use another eff for your espec then you have to multiply your input values by the factor eff/0.8. In the post I made on the Trainz Pro Routes forum I would modify the eff factor just like that.

It doesn't matter who's calculator you use. Mat's TEE program or Bob spreadsheet or Al Krug's on his website or your own, when you set up the throttle-power container for Trainz you have to be aware of the 80% factor Trainz applies internally and account for it.

I have no idea how Trainz treats the dynamic brake data in the espec whether it applies a factor to it or not. I'm not about to rush off and test it either - maybe someday but for now I'm back to steam locos.

Your braking curves look good though.

Bob Pearson
 
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nice job but your desktop shows you have TS2012 but your profile doesn't. Please remember to register your serial number in your planet auran profile.
 
i try made real dynamic brake cruve for trainz :clap:

i learn many pdf & document about Amperage to Tractive Effort ...
A 3,000 Hp SD40-2 may produce a maximum of 10,000 lbs of DB force for each axle or 60,000 lbs total.

heres real DB graph


a3000hpsd40260000lbstot.jpg


heres my graph

71529745.png


db60000lbs.jpg



heres new valeur


Code: 
dynamic-brake
{
 0 {
   0 0
   }
 1 {
   0.3 0.3
   0.9 1
   1.4 1.6
   2 2.3
   2.9 3.3
   4.4 4.9
   5.8 6.6
   7.3 8.2
   8.7 9.8
   10.2 11.5
   11.6 13.1
   13.1 13.8
   14.5 14.4
   17.4 15.7
   20.3 17.1
   23.2 17.5
   26.1 19.7
   28.1 19.2
   33.3 22.7
   }
 2 {
   0.3 0.7
   0.9 2
   1.4 3.3
   2 4.6
   2.9 6.6
   4.4 9.8
   5.8 13.1
   7.3 16.4
   8.7 19.7
   10.2 23
   11.6 26.2
   13.1 27.9
   14.3 28.9
   17.1 32.4
   20 35
   22.9 37.6
   33.3 46.4
   33.3 28.9
   33.4 0
   }
 3 {
   0.3 1.1
   0.9 3.4
   1.4 5.6
   2 7.9
   2.9 11.2
   4.4 16.9
   5.8 22.5
   7.3 28.1
   8.6 33.2
   10 34.1
   11.3 37.6
   12.8 39.4
   14.6 42
   17.4 45.5
   20.1 49
   24.5 52.5
   33.2 63
   33 32.4
   33.4 0
   }
 4 {
   0.3 2
   0.9 5.9
   1.4 9.8
   2 13.8
   2.9 19.7
   4.4 29.5
   5.8 39.4
   7.3 47.2
   8.7 55.1
   10.2 63
   11.4 71.9
   12.8 79.3
   15.1 93.3
   18.1 106.4
   20.5 115.7
   23.6 120.4
   32.9 94.5
   33.1 22.7
   33.4 0
   }
 5 {
   0.3 3.1
   0.9 9.2
   1.4 15.3
   2 21.4
   2.9 30.6
   4.4 45.9
   5.5 64.4
   6.7 78.7
   8 94.5
   9.4 107.6
   11 120.7
   13.6 146.9
   14.9 159.2
   16.8 173.6
   23.6 121.3
   32.9 95.3
   33.4 56.8
   33.3 21
   33.4 0
   }
 6 {
   0.3 3.9
   0.9 11.8
   1.4 19.7
   2 30.2
   2.9 39.4
   4 62.1
   5 79.6
   6.1 99.7
   7.4 120.7
   9 142.6
   10.9 168
   11.6 180.1
   13.8 203.5
   15.1 186.7
   23.6 122.3
   32.8 96.1
   33.1 37.6
   33.2 24.5
   33.4 0
   }
 7 {
   0.3 5.6
   0.9 16.7
   1.4 27.9
   1.8 38.3
   2.4 48.5
   3.3 67.2
   4.6 94.3
   5.9 126
   7.4 162.4
   8.8 187.6
   11.7 239.9
   13 216.5
   14.8 192.3
   19.5 150.3
   23.7 121.3
   33 97.1
   33.4 63
   33.2 21.9
   33.4 0
   }
 8 {
   0.3 17.5
   0.9 52.5
   2.2 160.5
   3.7 266.9
   5.6 242.7
   7.3 266
   9.1 242.7
   11.2 266
   11.7 238
   13.5 205.3
   18.3 160.5
   23.6 121.3
   24.4 119.5
   32.8 96.1
   33.2 43.7
   33.5 21.9
   33.4 0
   }
}
 
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