Another streetcar/traction question...

How might the history of America's interurbans and streetcar lines played out differently if the Public Utility Holding Company Act hadn't been passed in 1935, and electrical companies had maintained ownership of these systems through the rest of the Depression and WWII? I'd imagine that they'd still run into trouble once the automobile really came to prominence, but other factors that led to their demise would've been mitigated.

The big killer was the Model T Ford.

While that is more or less true, I think some of the bigger systems could've ended up differently.

A lot of the little lines to nowhere (a result of overly enthusiastic investors in the 1910s and 1920s) were doomed, but some of the better ones were basically commuter rail or rapid transit lines with fast, (relatively) modern rolling stock and private right-of-way.

I doubt they would remain profitable long after WWII (if that long) but if more of them could've avoided "busification" until the era of municipal/state ownership...

Blutorse4792 said:

While that is more or less true, I think some of the bigger systems could've ended up differently.

A lot of the little lines to nowhere (a result of overly enthusiastic investors in the 1910s and 1920s) were doomed, but some of the better ones were basically commuter rail or rapid transit lines with fast, (relatively) modern rolling stock and private right-of-way.

I doubt they would remain profitable long after WWII (if that long) but if more of them could've avoided "busification" until the era of municipal/state ownership...

Click to expand...

That was my thinking on this. Systems like the Chicago, North Shore and Milwaukee would probably have survived just like the South Shore and South Bend has today, at least in part and a lot more than the Skokie Swift line. In some areas, there were systems that were barely profitable even before the Great Depression. There was one line up my way I know of which never showed a profit in all the years it operated, while others were absorbed into the mass transit systems we have in the Boston area. The BRB&L, aka the Narrow Gauge, is gone, but its ROW is now the Blue Line for Boston's MBTA and there are plans again to rebuild more the ROW up to Lynn, but also use part of the existing B&M Eastern RR line as well. Sadly, there are parts that have been built over which make rebuilding difficult. The rest of the streetcar lines, such as the Eastern Mass system may have remained in use after it was absorbed into the Metropolitan and Boston EL systems, which all became the MBTA, if there wasn't the take over by the bus companies. They had an extensive network, including a private ROW up on the northern end into Stoneham, as well as additional private ownership in some of the larger cities, which today would make a perfect commuter route into downtown Boston.

John

Just like Disney assigned covert crews of his agents, who secretly bought up huge tracts of land in Florida ... the monopoly of Ford, GM, Oil Companies, etc ... etc ... under the direct direction of President Eisenhower ... they set out to buy up the majority of US transit system stocks ... then they purposely sabotaged the transit companies from the inside out ... the biggest conspiracy of monopolies in the US ... and no one ever went to jail for it !

I believe one major CEO got a laughable $1.00 fine by a corrupt judge

That's very sad. Also, on the topic of one-dollar railroading, the Franklin Institute (Philadelphia) bought Baldwin 60000 for $1.00. Baldwin 60000 was an advanced locomotive but sadly was too heavy to operate on most railroads. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldwin_60000

Many versions.

Between 1936 and 1950, National City Lines and Pacific City Lines—with investment from GM, Firestone Tire, Standard Oil of California, Phillips Petroleum, MackTrucks, and the Federal Engineering Corporation— a Standard subsidiary, purchased over 100 electric surface-traction systems in 45 cities including Baltimore, Newark, Los Angeles, New York City, Oakland and San Diego and converted them into bus operation.

However:

http://www.1134.org/stan/ul/GM-et-al.html

jkinzel said:

Many versions.

Between 1936 and 1950, National City Lines and Pacific City Lines—with investment from GM, Firestone Tire, Standard Oil of California, Phillips Petroleum, MackTrucks, and the Federal Engineering Corporation— a Standard subsidiary, purchased over 100 electric surface-traction systems in 45 cities including Baltimore, Newark, Los Angeles, New York City, Oakland and San Diego and converted them into bus operation.

However:

http://www.1134.org/stan/ul/GM-et-al.html

Click to expand...

That was in LA, but in other cities it was quite obvious. Albany, Springfield, MA, Worcester, Boston, Brooklyn, New York City, and many other places fell to the axe much later during the mid-to-late 1950s right through the 1960s.

John