Grammar Lesson.

So please tell what was the point you were trying to make if we all got it wrong

I think the point is that English is primarily a spoken language so when you speak you naturally use "a" and "an" correctly according to your dialect/pronunciation. Unfortunately we use written English in the forum and it can be difficult enough getting understood and the more academic view of grammar can assist here. There is another issue that hasn't been touched on and that is that many people whose first language is not English read the forum and the misuse of grammar will lead them astray.

My personal view is most of the time the formal grammar rules should be followed for clarities sake there are occasions when the rules can be broken but in an international forum you need a lowest common denominator sort of approach. The best example I can give you is in Canada we have civil servants who are rated bilingual, I used to have a some sort of level in French, not the top because my accent / vowels are European rather than North American. However at work we had some one who boasted they were completely bilingual their first language was French. One of my coworkers came from Yorkshire some fifteen miles from where I was born as the sheep graze on the moors. We had a conversation using northern grammar, thee, thou etc with the verb endings and style of speech as used in King James authorised bible, we could understand each other perfectly but the "perfectly bilingual" Francophone caught about one word in ten. When we wanted to communicate in the office we used a more standardised approach.

Cheerio John
 
John,

I think that dialect rather than language is what you're touching on there. I'm from Scotland but live in Belfast and have adapted my dialect accordingly to avoid being misunderstood. While I and those I converse with are both speaking English and can understand each other no problem, if I speak to my Scottish work colleague, we're invariably told by locals that "you two are speaking a foreign language".

While this is quite amusing, what passes for government here is trying to push a 'language' called Ulster Scotch. When I moved here initially, I had never heard of it before but came across a radio programme in Ulster Scotch and found it to be perfectly understandable because it was basically what I'd normally speak back in Scotland, i.e. a dialect. I'd never considered myself bilingual until that point and I still don't.
 
Perhaps the point the OP was trying to make was that whereas spoken English varies quite widely between nationalities, localities, age-groups and classes, the convention remains that it is a common courtesy that written English should conform to rather tighter rules so that it may be clearly understood by the widest possible range of readers.
 
Perhaps the point the OP was trying to make was that whereas spoken English varies quite widely between nationalities, localities, age-groups and classes, the convention remains that it is a common courtesy that written English should conform to rather tighter rules so that it may be clearly understood by the widest possible range of readers.

and I would agree with that.

Cheerio John
 
Here is something to think about, English is a living language. The language is always evolving. Now the question arises, what is proper today may not be tommorow. This, then brings into question, are we, creating a new language via texting and the internet?
 
Here is something to think about, English is a living language. The language is always evolving. Now the question arises, what is proper today may not be tommorow. This, then brings into question, are we, creating a new language via texting and the internet?

I've already mentioned the constant evolution above, but it hardly gives everyone carte-blanche to plonk things down as they wish right now - that way anarchy lies.

There is no doubt that modern technology is having a massive influence (even down to errors made by slips of the fingers when typing), but it's only fair to point out that much of this technology offers spell-checking facilities for those who can be bothered to use them, and that even within its own parameters this same technology often expects an even greater degree of accuracy.

As a simple example, a single character out of place in a Trainz config. text (or any other computer coding) can render the whole the whole sequence inoperable. In other words, there are areas of contemporary language which have even more demanding standards of accuracy than those which some here would like to see.
 
1 d0nt S33 th3 pr0b13m h3r3 guys pls xp1a1n

You're using a dialect or slang form of English which might not be intelligible to other members of the forum. They are often used to exclude people from a group and give a feeling of our group/gang together ie no outsiders, if I was to say she has beautiful mince pies you might not understand the expression referred to her eyes but many English people would, same with apples and pairs for stairs, That'll cost you a Lady Godiva, or a five pound note. There are many other examples where I can use UK English expressions or references that might not be apparent to yourself. Even simple things like 1066, has connotations but you might not be aware of them.

To be polite its better to use conventional written English since it is the most widely understood.

Cheerio John
 
Use English but seriously, this isn't a bloody pluralist society and it isn't going to be read by your royal highness. What's the big deal? It's meant to be a forum for all ages and all demographics but it seems only the exceptionally well educated in English are allowed to post? Sure, I understand horrible spelling is annoying often, especially when it occurs so often. If people could just stop using 'u' instead of 'you' that would really be nice. I hate 'u', it's just laziness. And I'm typing this on my phone as we speak
 
Hewked awn fonics werks fer mee.

But not if you have an Australian accent then the phonetics would be different. What is interesting is the written language of the Inuit, its pure European short hand and comes from the way the first missionaries wrote down their language.

Cheerio John
 
Use English but seriously, this isn't a bloody pluralist society and it isn't going to be read by your royal highness. What's the big deal? It's meant to be a forum for all ages and all demographics but it seems only the exceptionally well educated in English are allowed to post? Sure, I understand horrible spelling is annoying often, especially when it occurs so often. If people could just stop using 'u' instead of 'you' that would really be nice. I hate 'u', it's just laziness. And I'm typing this on my phone as we speak


There are no legal rules in British English unlike American English that actually has rules about spelling and some odd verb forms. So if you are addressing your royal highness then a particular form of grammar or spelling aren’t important as long as you are understood. My understanding is that the Royal family have sufficient grasp of various forms of pidgin English that they can communicate in them. I don’t know what the penalty is for misspelling American English is but there are a number of words that I understand are spelt differently by Act of Congress. Even now NSA maybe analysing your words and spelling looking for people breaking the law.

If you want to study old British English pronunciation then some of the more remote parts of America such as the Appalachian Mountains still use a form of English that is very close to 16th century British English.

I think the suggestion is if you want to be understood then doing things like using you rather than u and conforming to what is considered to be normal written English will help get your message across, but it is only a suggestion and quite often if you know your audience you can get the message across even if you break the rules and in some cases make a bigger impact when you do so.

Cheerio John
 
Does anyone else see the irony in the "Grammer" thread being used to argue "Spelling" and "dilect" issues?

Personally, I find it much more better to use correct punctuation, and the correct (albeit, mis-spelled) words, to form sentences. :hehe:
 
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