Trainz and DRM

JCitron said:
I agree, but then again being the forums here someone would start a post about the fears of pledging and... Well you know what will happen. We'll end up with pages of dribble on the dribble about the dribble of nothing.

NS37 summed it up nicely. Sadly, he's making sense and not to many folks have listened to him except Martin and me it seems. :)

Typical of these forums, people will speculate on the speculation about anything.

John
Click to expand...

I, for one, would like to be wrong about callback DRM, and that N3V will drop it from the next version entirely. That's why this thread was started. Now, of course, the fanboys absolutely cannot tolerate the concept of people daring to ask questions or *gasp* criticize Trainz or N3V, but, for some, the question, even the speculation, serves some value. We ultimately did get an official response, hinting that this question might be answered in a few days (although I believe Tony did leave open the possibility that we may not have a firm answer as well. YMMV, interpret his statement as you will, and so on.) Then, many of us can make a decision whether or not to pledge on Kickstarter and perhaps, (yes, apparently I have to state the obvious) buy the next version.

Edit: It is rather entertaining, though, and serves an interesting social experiment, to see the fanboys froth at the mouth. Seems to take very little to set them off. But, that's not the purpose of this thread or any post, at least not any of mine, and keep in mind that I've been labelled a "fanboy" in the past. Just sayin'.
 
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JCitron said:
Typical of these forums, people will speculate on the speculation about anything.
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Ah, but at least they're interested enough to post. Imagine if the brave new world had been announced and all we saw on the forum was tumbleweed rolling by.
 
cascaderailroad said:
Although RRSignal answered with his own un-official feelings, to questions that I had asked about DRM ...

I still am waiting for some real official answers to these questions, directly from N3V staff:

Just think of how excited, and supportive we all would be about TANE and WOR, if DRM nor Steam, was not going to be involved at all ... we would have nothing to complain about ... and we all would pledge 100% toward Kickstarter

if these answers were officially answered by N3V, they might get 100% support from the community
Click to expand...

amigacooke said:
Ah, but at least they're interested enough to post. Imagine if the brave new world had been announced and all we saw on the forum was tumbleweed rolling by.
Click to expand...

I belonged a few forums in the past that were like that. You all you could hear was crickets periodically and they weren't even in the forums. They were in my basement sitting next to me! :)

John
 
JCitron said:
I belonged a few forums in the past that were like that. You all you could hear was crickets periodically and they weren't even in the forums. They were in my basement sitting next to me! :)

John
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But imagine the excitement when someone posted! ;)
 
A forum is made to have discussions on about important topics ... Like highly invasive DRM is an important topic !

DRM was never in Trainz before this ... Why is DRM being incorporated now ?

There must be a reason ?

Just like the NSA is listening in on all our phone calls ... should we just complacently as lemmings, accept this intrusion as "Normal" perfectly acceptable new policies ?

If we didn't question DRM ... We would be like lemmings, complacently letting something brand new, foreign, and bad, to be quietly slipped into a new Game, with bad side effects.

Poo Pooing the Forum discussion, about what bad things DRM does, and telling us that we will have our questions quashed about DRM, and are told to simply: "get with the times" ... or "move on out of the way" ... ie: " If you can't or are unwilling, then we will have to go on without you" ... "As I said, we will go on without you" ...

Letting this aspect of DRM, "slide right in", is acting like a bunch of lemmings, oblivious to the real outcome ... What other severe intrusion will be slipped in next, as one stands by complacently, with no voice, simply accepting intrusions, having no vote, on an important matter, that will effect us all, and the future of Trainz ?

I feel there are some very real answers that are needed to be answered as to why DRM is being slipped in, and why DRM is being slid in ?
 
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cascaderailroad said:
A forum is made to have discussions on about important topics ... Like highly invasive DRM is an important topic !

DRM was never in Trainz before this ... Why is DRM being incorporated now ?

There must be a reason ?

Just like the NSA is listening in on all our phone calls ... should we just complacently as lemmings, accept this intrusion as "Normal" perfectly acceptable new policies ?

If we didn't question DRM ... We would be like lemmings, complacently letting something brand new, foreign, and bad, to be quietly slipped into a new Game, with bad side effects.

Poo Pooing the Forum discussion, about what bad things DRM does, and telling us that we will have our questions quashed about DRM, and are told to simply: "get with the times" ... or "move on out of the way" ... ie: " If you can't or are unwilling, then we will have to go on without you" ... "As I said, we will go on without you" ...

Letting this aspect of DRM, "slide right in", is acting like a bunch of lemmings, oblivious to the real outcome ... What other severe intrusion will be slipped in next, as one stands by complacently, with no voice, simply accepting intrusions, having no vote, on an important matter, that will effect us all, and the future of Trainz ?

I feel there are some very real answers that are needed to be answered as to why DRM is being slipped in, and why DRM is being slid in ?
Click to expand...

I do agree we do need answers to this, however... things don't always go this way on these forums.

As I and others have said a few times here:

There is nothing wrong with asking questions. Stating ones opinion over and over and quashing or dispelling what others have to say, is not constructive as that is not really asking a question or accepting constructive debate - it's only a statement of one's personal view. Using Ad hominem attacks to quash difference in opinion only invalidates the argument and turns constructive questions into popcorn feasts.

John
 
cascaderailroad said:
A forum is made to have discussions on about important topics ... Like highly invasive DRM is an important topic !

DRM was never in Trainz before this ... Why is DRM being incorporated now ?

There must be a reason ?

Just like the NSA is listening in on all our phone calls ... should we just complacently as lemmings, accept this intrusion as "Normal" perfectly acceptable new policies ?

If we didn't question DRM ... We would be like lemmings, complacently letting something brand new, foreign, and bad, to be quietly slipped into a new Game, with bad side effects.

Poo Pooing the Forum discussion, about what bad things DRM does, and telling us that we will have our questions quashed about DRM, and are told to simply: "get with the times" ... or "move on out of the way" ... ie: " If you can't or are unwilling, then we will have to go on without you" ... "As I said, we will go on without you" ...

Letting this aspect of DRM, "slide right in", is acting like a bunch of lemmings, oblivious to the real outcome ... What other severe intrusion will be slipped in next, as one stands by complacently, with no voice, simply accepting intrusions, having no vote, on an important matter, that will effect us all, and the future of Trainz ?

I feel there are some very real answers that are needed to be answered as to why DRM is being slipped in, and why DRM is being slid in ?
Click to expand...
I agree and in my opinion, DRM does more harm than good. I know many people who, upon researching a game or a sim before they buy it, find a DRM policy, such as the one that has been implemented by N3V, they will not buy that sim/game. With DRM there comes a significant lack of stability in the sense that it could be gone at the drop of a hat. The company goes under, and all the content, or in some cases even the game itself, is gone and there is nothing that can be done about it. DRM is something that is definitely not needed in Trainz, and as some have already addressed, there are better and more sensible alternatives.

Trainz is not the only rail sim out there, and this means that on top of how good the sim is, the policies have to make sense. The DRM policy argument makes sense. It is a good idea on paper, but as it has been implemented time and time again, there are very significant drawbacks DRM, almost all of which have been addressed. In addition, it creates distrust in the stability and long term viability of getting the sim.
 
jacksonbarno said:
...a DRM policy, such as the one that has been implemented by N3V...
Click to expand...

What would that be? the serial number? The likelihood of "being gone at the drop of a hat" is just about as likely as the opposite. Where is the major concern here?

jacksonbarno said:
Trainz is not the only rail sim out there...
Click to expand...

and the others do not have some form of DRM?

The only way I can see this going too far is if they are able to cut your access to the game and content by something like - They dont like you. I feel that would be overstepping some. But any other reason is probably something you already agreed to in the terms of use or EULA.
 
May I ask you ... Why are you such in favor of DRM being implemented ?

Do you like DRM ... or something like that ?

What good can come from DRM ?

Do you own stock shares in DRM4ULikeItOrNotHereItComes.com

I can not understand why someone would stand on a soapbox defending DRM, and applaud the use of DRM ... Why are you looking forward to DRM ?

The likely hood is still blatently ever present of: "the Game and DLC being gone at the drop of a hat" if N3V went out of business ... "if they are able to cut your access to the game and content for reasons, something like - They just don't like you" is something that I heard that Steam does do, to it's customers.
 
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This question is what I don't understand. I have not applauded or endorsed DRM in any way. First of all as I have repeatedly said that there is no evidence of ultra-invasive DRM being applied to Trainz as a whole. Just because I am not "AAH DRM!!! RUN AWAY" and unplug my computer and run out of the room doesn't mean I am in favor of DRM being implemented. However, I do not see the issue with DRM that upholds the agreement we all had to look at when installing the product - not just Trainz, ANY product. If you don't like it don't agree or get it. Sure there are right and wrong ways to go about DRM, especially if it is invasive, but in the end it is a really simple choice.

If I were really trying to push pro DRM as has been insinuated here, I would apply it to my own products. I prefer to exercise another right, and that is don't sell to people who abuse your products.

and soapbox? Is this not a forum for discussing things? It says so at the top of my screen... If I do not discuss things does that take me off said soapbox?
 
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To keep this thread from exploding (or continuing ad infinitum), the short answer is that the core product, Trainz: A New Era, will operate in a very similar way to every other previous version of Trainz - with a serial number registration. The longer answer (our "policy") on DRM will be released "soon". Why not now you ask? We need to word things correctly to avoid misunderstandings and conjecture about "what might happen if the sky falls down". For example, there never has been and is never likely to be any DRM on free DLS content.
 
paulhobbs said:
Damn. That's the end of another conspiracy theory, what are we going to argue about next?

Paul
Click to expand...
Easy.

Read the post above yours.

Tony_Hilliam said:
~snip~ We need to word things correctly to avoid misunderstandings and conjecture about "what might happen if the sky falls down". For example, there never has been and is never likely to be any DRM on free DLS content.
Click to expand...
(My emphasis in red)

Could DRM be implemented if DLS content starts being chargeable?
 
Tony_Hilliam said:
To keep this thread from exploding (or continuing ad infinitum), the short answer is that the core product, Trainz: A New Era, will operate in a very similar way to every other previous version of Trainz - with a serial number registration. The longer answer (our "policy") on DRM will be released "soon". Why not now you ask? We need to word things correctly to avoid misunderstandings and conjecture about "what might happen if the sky falls down". For example, there never has been and is never likely to be any DRM on free DLS content.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your clarification, Tony. I look forward to the "long" answer, but even the short one is greatly appreciated.
 
Why not now ?

Why do we have to wait for reasons and wording to be spelled out, as to why DRM is being implemented ?

The words: Very similar is, not very reassuring !

Since it is of up most importance to spell things out to your loyal customers, how, and why, things are going in the direction that they are going, in this new direction of DRM?

After all ... we pay your salaries, and will continue to pay your salaries, with our future purchases, and pledges. towards this "New Era"

I am really looking forward to this new era of Trainz, and pledging.
 
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Tony_Hilliam said:
Trainz: A New Era, will operate in a very similar way to every other previous version of Trainz - with a serial number registration.
Click to expand...

Thank you for that it makes a big difference.

It will be good to see the long answer to see there is no curly bits to it, but you have addressed my main concern.

Cheers

Lots
 
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