Help using DEM, TIGER, and HOG.

[Simcik]

Well, I've been reading up on using DEM and TIGER files to make protoypical layouts, however, I'm having trouble doing so...

I've found an online tutorial and tried to follow it, but it's not been working... The tutorial used a program called MicroDEM 7.0 - MicroDEM is not 7.0 anymore, and so some of the functions are different, and therefore is hard for me to understand and get to work... The main problem is that the DEM map shows up as a solid color no matter what I do. The map never looks anything like how it does in the tutorial... Also, when I try to overlay the TIGER info, nothing appears! It's very frustrating... Is there a better tutorial out there? Or a better program? Anything? I'd really like to get this to work...

Here's the tutorial I've been trying to use:
http://freepages.misc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wewain/trainz/Surveyor/Baseboard/Topology/TerrainGeneration/Downloading-TIGER.htm

[Dermmy]

you are using the best tutorial I know. As you say the Microdem version is different, as are the Trainz requirements. Some of the changes needed are intuitive, others are not. There is plenty of help available through the forum, but unfortunately the forum search engine does not recognise a three-letter search, so searching HOG or DEM yields null returns. Follow the tute as best you can. When you get bogged down, post specific questions and we will get you thru it....

[doncraig]

Sorry Simcik for hijacking your thread,
@Dermmy Am I right in thinking that these Tiger lines only apply in the USA ?
Is there anything similar for the UK ? Free ?
take care
Don W

[Jerker]

G'day doncraig,

...it's good to hear your words again...

...you are indeed, correct! There IS no such thing as the so-called "Tiger Lines" for anywhere outside of the 'continental' USA. Nothing! Nil! Zilch! Zero! Nada! Nichts! Njet! Niente! Nought! My only suggestion is to use the best available Topographic maps. Unfortunately, the 'free' ones aren't the best there are but I have had had good enough results using them...

Jerker {:)}

[Simcik]

Okay, I was habing lots of problems with MicroDEM so I unistalled/reinstalled it, and - guess what? It worked! Finally! I got my DEM and Tiger data to show up! Of course it couldn't be that simple though...

I launched Trainz, made my blank map, and saved it. I then copied the .gnd file from the HOG program to the Trainz folder, but when I load it, it is not correct! The image and the map appear as very small little hills in a regular pattern and lots of little red, blue, and light blue dots all over. No roads, rails, or true elevations...

What happened???

[skol587]

what about using google earth i have herd of some people using that program to build maps

[Dermmy]

Simcik:

1. What version of Trainz are you using?

2. Did you skip the 'rescale image to 10meters=1 pixel step?

[Simcik]

1: UTC

2: No

[doncraig]

Hi Jerker,
I am back thank you.
I don't think we really need all these tiger etc. doodahs to map a simple route in the U.K.
take care
Don W

[Jerker]

G'day doncraig,

...I don't think we really need all these tiger etc. doodahs to map a simple route in the U.K....

...indeed, Don, as I said above, the freely available Ordinance Survey Topographic maps of the U. K. are perfectly adequate for the purpose (and if you ask me, a much better product, by far)...

...none of which helps out poor Simcik with their problem, so...

G'day Simcik,

...I wonder if we might be able to entice an image of the Trianz screen showing precisely that which you describe at the end of your last post (it will make it just that much easier for us to understand your plight)?...

Jerker {:)}

[Simcik]

Here it is:

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/3495/layouttroublesba7.png

[Dermmy]

Exactly where is the route you are modelling? I got something like that once when the route straddled two DEM zones.

Andy

[Simcik]

It's in Big Sandy, Upshur County, Texas.

[Dermmy]

Well it isn't the zone thing, I am surprised no-one else has jumped in. There is a known issue with HOG and the area where baseboards jopin, but I have never seen it manifested so 'spike-ily'. The scale on the mini-map looks wrong, although it is hard to be certain...

[louvain]

If you are using Werwain's tutorial, try this one too!

http://www.virtualrailroader.com/DEM-Trainz.pdf

Helped me.

I think the tiger data is showing incorrectly on the mini-map in your screenshot............

Finally, what DEM data set did you download, as this effects the conversion of pixel size you have to do?

[Simcik]

I downloaded and used the 30m DEM-24K data...

The minimap and and the baseboards may show up wrong in Trainz, but I don't know how to fix it. The .tga files appear fine! I'm very confused...

[Jerker]

G'day Simcik,

"30m DEM-24K data" you say? Hmmm, that may well be the cause of your problems. I use the SRTM data EXCLUSIVELY (except for some 1 arcsec - 10 meter - resolution data that I have recently found for Switzerland). For a start, the data from SRTM for the continental US is all at 10 meters (1 arcsec) resolution - a distinct advantage and, if you download version 3, there are no more "holes" in the data (a possible cause of the spikes in your image). I can't tell from the images exactly what problems you are having with the 'Tiger' data but...

...is this the sort of result you are looking to achieve?...

http://www.pics.victrainz.com.au/Big_Sandy_01.jpg


http://www.pics.victrainz.com.au/Big_Sandy_02.jpg


http://www.pics.victrainz.com.au/Big_Sandy_03.jpg


http://www.pics.victrainz.com.au/Big_Sandy_04.jpg


...as you can see from the images, this is a route centred on Big Sandy (first image), that extends Northward to Gilmer (not shown) via the St. Louis Southwestern, South to Tyler (to include the extensive Locomotive facilities there - the second image), where we take in a short portion of the Missouri Pacific from Lindale towards the Gravel pits in the nearby 'hills'. There are also included a small portion of the lines from Tyler to Gresham (via the St. Louis Southwestern) and towards the lakes to the South West (also on the St. Louis Southwestern).

Along the East/West axis, the route starts in the East at Longwiew (with short portions of the Missouri Pacific lines off to the East and South East as far as Estes, as well as the line South West towards Kilgore. As an added bonus, the "Industrial Loop" around Longview is included in it's entirety (image #3). Heading west from Big Sandy the route goes as far as the big yard located at West Mineola. As you can see from the images, I have utilised the available Topographic maps from the USGS rather than your preferred "Tiger Data", because I believe this to be the better 'option' of the two.

Since you appear to be having so much trouble getting the results you want, if all of this is to your liking, I will make the route available as a *.cdp file for you, as if it were requested from me....


...by the way, you are quite correct in stating that Texas is not as flat as everyone tends to think it is but come on, let's face it, it isn't anything even remotely close to what could be described as 'hilly', either...

Jerker {:)}
http://www.pics.victrainz.con.au/Big_Sandy.jpg

[Simcik]

That is absolutely perfect!!! Thank you so much for your help, and I will look into using the same methods you have in any future attempts. I would greatly appreciate it if you could send me a copy of the *.cdp file! For what versions would this route be compatible?

Thank you!

[Jerker]

G'day Simcik,

As a *.cdp type file, the route is 'compatible' with all versions of Trainz, only the installation process changes slightly from version to version. You can download the file - bearing in mind, that it is already 152 M Bytes as it stands, without any assets added - from this link...

[/URL][URL]http://www.storage.victrainz.com.au/Jerkers_DEM_maps/Big_Sandy.cdp (http://www.storage.victrianz.com.au/Jerker%27s%20DEM%20maps/Big%20Sandy.cdp)

...let me know if you have any issues...

Jerker {:)}

[Simcik]

Thank you, Jerker!

I found out alot about the *.cmd files yesterday after doing some Googling... Thank you for helping me with the DEM! I plan to get started finallizing it right away and will be sure to post screenshots of it as I go along!

Again, thanks!

[Drumboy444]

I opologize if this has been mentioned in the posts already, however I was up till 2 in the morning and spent a good portion of this morning after I got up trying to figure out my problem. I am trying to a trainz map from boston to Worcestor with the tiger lines and all. I have a greater boston route, and a providence to worcestor route, but want to merge the two.

I have successfully countoured some ground using the following document: http://www.virtualrailroader.com/DEM-Trainz.pdf.

I have been able to grab dem maps from here: http://data.geocomm.com/dem/demdownload.html, but the overlay information such as roads, railroads, and miscellaneous information I have been grabbing from http://edcwww.cr.usgs.gov/doc/edchome/ndcdb/ndcdb.html does not match up with the data I have grabbed from the previouse site. I have been learning that the topographic Quadrangles don't help me in narrowing down the other data because these don't seem to have anything to do with the DEM maps.

I know from what point I need to start on each route to join the two, but can't seem to properly create the map inbetween. I was willing to build it tyle by tyle merging along the way if I had to and then finally merging the three pieces together.

Is there a simpler way of going about this than I have been doing? Is there a place that I can go online to grab all of the data that I need in one place? And if I do have the tiger lines is there documentation that tells me how to add these to my maps. Again I can countour some ground using a map that I brought up in MicroDem, but was going to place the tiger lines in next. I just can't find all of the data in one place so that the correct tiger data matches up to the correct DEM map. Hope you know what I am referring to.

If you can help me in this matter or better yet if you know of someone who has this route with tiger lines and all, and wouldn't mind sharing it, this would help me alot as well.

Any help in this matter would be appreciated.

Thanks,

[Drumboy444]

I found one solution to the problem I was having. I am not so concerned about the land contour as I am about the placement of the roads, rails, etc. I found a forum that described how to create basemaps, which I use to trace over with my roads, rails, or anything else I want. They appear to be to scale so this solves the problem I previously mentioned. I am alset for now, so no one needs to reply to my last post, unless you want to for my future reference. Thanks though.

[geophil]

The classic MicroDEM/HOG approach works best with TIGER data as a map ground texture overlay, as MicroDEM will do the georeferencing for you, i.e. placing the TIGER lines on the proper spots on the DEM. (It's still a lot of manual work and I admit I never tried it myself.)

With Basemaps, and without a map ground texture (e.g. TIGER), it will be next to impossible to position the Basemaps matching the underlying terrain.

If you are looking for a quick and painless way to combine DEM terrain with topographic maps, you may want to consider TransDEM for Trainz. It is payware, though.