Transdem & trainz 2009

[beavi501]

hi i have owned trandem for quite some time but for some reason or other never got round to using it. I am now trying to get into it however it seems when i try import content into tranz 2009 i get a missing dependencies error. The dependency is as follows

kuid:-1:7803

i cannot find this asset.
if i import the same content to trainz 2006 this does not occur. Any suggestions?

[nomen]

This is the KUID of the region, which is written into the config.txt file of the TransDEM created route. This regoin is no longer built-in into TS2009. So you might want to replace this KUID (edit config.txt) by one of the regions available in TS2009 and everything is fine.

[beavi501]

So what kuid would i need to replace it with for trainz 2009? sorry i a bit new to this

[capdiamont]

How do you like transdem?

[rweber95]

Richard,
Here are the TS2009 regions with cars. Pick one and use its kuid in the route.

Australia,<kuid:-1:7801>
United States,<kuid:-1:7804>
France,<kuid:149301:1003>
HP-Trainz Region Elbtal,<kuid:68787:1266>
SDW.2.1 Region Thuringen Romantik,<kuid2:121616:100901:1>
PTP Region,<kuid:151900:1>

Bob

[fwassner]

I was really enjoying Transdem Trainz Edition for TS2006, but when I upgraded to TS2009, I found that I cannot export UTM tiles to TS2009.
I get an error about the .gnd file. I was told that the header in the file for TS2009 is different than that for TS2006.

I think there may be a work-around, according to Geophil, who coded Transdem, but I have not yet tried, as I am pretty much finished with that phase of my route.

FW

[capdiamont]

Interesting, I'll be going with it then.

[piergav]

Any ideas about region Russia KUID? Will be interesting operating it hehe
I know almost have no chances for it
And one more q. I read manual about using DEM and Google Earth but completely forgot how to generate .gnd extension files to export to TRS 2006
and is there any chance to export to TS2009 without UTM tiles

[beavi501]

Hey thanks for all your replies. I am starting to get into transdem slowly though obviously not into very advanced areas of the software yet. Just georeferencing google earth images at moment

[beavi501]

well i been having a play with trandem & google earth. getting there slowly but any hints or tips greatly appreciated

[wreeder]

GeoPhil has two threads in the payware forum, one for 1.2 and one for 1.3. Both of them are worth reading for tips and hints.

William

[fwassner]

Hey thanks for all your replies. I am starting to get into transdem slowly though obviously not into very advanced areas of the software yet. Just georeferencing google earth images at moment
When georeferencing Google images, make sure you keep the eye altitude constant for all the adjoining areas, and make sure tilt is turned off (you are looking directly down at the Earth).
Nice thing about Transdem is that it will warn you if the tilt was off for the Google image.

I also keep the navigation and status bar off to keep them out of the image.

FW

[beavi501]

How do you create overlay maps for dem's created using google earth? i create a image & placemark in google. geo-reference the two in transdem and add to dem data and export to trainz. The problem is from the image on the trainz baseboard hardly anything is recognisable its just a blur

[Jerker]

G'day Beavi501,

Welcome to the wonderful world of Trainz :o. I presume you have used the Google Earth images you have obtained as an overlay and have exported them as the minimap and terrain texture, then, you have just discovered the total inadequacies of the Jet 3d engine and the fact that the good fellows at Auran decided to make the resolution of the baseboard on a 10 meter grid. As a consequence, the creator of HOG (the program that actually creates the terrain for Trainz, which is used invisibly by TransDEM) CANNOT reproduce the quality of any image at a level greater than 1 pixel for each 10 square meters of ground!!!! If you want an exact replication of the quality of the Google earth image, then you must use the UTM tile export option available in TranzDEM. The "disadvantage" of using this method is that the tiles are merely flat planes located in the appropriate place in the route and remain so, so that the tiles must be raised and lowered to show the details at points where the terrain obscures them. However, sufficient detail should be discernible if a combination of the two methods is used...

Jerker {:)}

[geophil]

A small remark:

... As a consequence, the creator of HOG (the program that actually creates the terrain for Trainz, which is used invisibly by TransDEM)

TransDEM 1.0 and 1.1 incorporated HOG indeed, by producing output suitable for HOG to actually create the Trainz ground file. However, starting with TransDEM 1.2, TransDEM generates the ground and all other route files itself, no longer making use of the HOG software. This way TransDEM became much easier to use and more flexible, now also allowing later modification of a route.

Nevertheless, even with TransDEM handling all the Trainz files internally with its own software library, the general idea, introduced by HOG, to map a ground texture pixel to a ground vertex is still the same, kudos to the author of HOG here for his brilliant idea.




As Jerker correctly mentions, to overcome the ground texture resolution problem, we have the TransDEM UTM tiles, flat texture carrier objects suitable for ortho images like Google Earth.

And TransDEM also offers to place Trainz spline objects right into the route, another alternative for transferring map data to the Trainz project.

The tutorial in the TransDEM Trainz manual illustrates all three methods: ground textures, UTM tiles, and splines.


PS: Upcoming TransDEM for TS2009 will support the new 5m terrain grid as an option, allowing for higher ground texture resolution. 1:25000 maps should work, after 1:50000 with the 10m grid, but ortho images (often 1:1000) will still work better as UTM tiles.

[beavi501]

Hi with regard to last post about creating utm tiles how do i go about creating them? are the just created from plain google earth maps as the reaster maps are? So far all i can manage is to load a dem image & load google earth georeferenced maps over the top but when imported in trainz landscape is barely recognisable only a blur. I know i need to use utm but dont really follow from the manual how create these and if they can be created from google earth images.

[geophil]

Repeat what you did in the "Muengsten" tutorial, part 2. For Muengsten you had the two 1:5000 map clippings. Replace them with georeferenced Google Earth images. I would also enable 2048 pixel textures because ortho images usuially have an even larger scale.

Do not export ortho imagery as ground texture as the terrain surface ends up blurred - you already found out.

[beavi501]

with regards to ortho images you say enable 2048 pixel textures. Firstly how is this done? i can' find this option is it part of transdem or google? Also scale seems to giving me problems. What range of altitudes in google earth are generally required when creating an overlay map?

[geophil]

with regards to ortho images you say enable 2048 pixel textures. Firstly how is this done? i can' find this option is it part of transdem or google? Also scale seems to giving me problems. What range of altitudes in google earth are generally required when creating an overlay map?

2048 pixels is an option in the UTM tile export dialogue in TransDEM, in group "UTM tile object".

Eye altitude in Google Earth defines the effective scale. 500 m is appropriate. There are areas with much higher resolution in Google Earth. However, larger scale is not very suitable for UTM tiles. Best way to deal with high res images - if you need them for a yard or the like - is to trace the tracks in TransDEM and export to Trainz as splines.

[fwassner]

Geophil;
Any work-around yet for TS2009?
I have not yet been able to export anything from Transdem ver 1.3.1.0 to TS2009 SP1.
I tried to export just road (track) splines a couple days ago, but kept getting errors.
I think you told me to replace (temporarily) the .gnd file in TS2009 with the one in TS2006, but Transdem then gave me the error for the mapfile.obs file, so I replaced it with the TS2006 and then I got an error for the next file in line, all the way to the config.txt file.
So, I was never able to export anything to TS2009.

It's really a shame that Auran broke such a good tool (Transdem) in creating TS2009.
I am sorry that I jumped the fence to 09 from 06 so quickly. I should have at least finished with all that I needed to get from Transdem first.

Now, all I want to do is create track splines in Transdem, but actually these will be road splines (I will change the KUID to a road) so that I can place my roads the way I did my track.
Of course I placed the track in TS2006, so no problems there.

Thanks for your help.

FW

[geophil]

Frank,

if I recalll this correctly, it affects additions to an existing route. I do understand that the ability to add splines and UTM tiles at a later stage is an important feature for many TransDEM users. This feature should come back with the next TransDEM version. However, we are all in Auran's hand and if they decide to introduce more file format changes I have to catch up again.

The latest TS2009 patch end of January introduced new file versions for .gnd, .obs, and .trk and, in a way, also for config.txt. You would now need to temporarily substitute all the files, except for .bmk to bypass the file format issues.

I am still working on the necessary modifications in TransDEM but have reached a state similar to the one before the last TS2009 patch, meaning most of my tests succeed again.

[fwassner]

Frank,

if I recalll this correctly, it affects additions to an existing route. I do understand that the ability to add splines and UTM tiles at a later stage is an important feature for many TransDEM users. This feature should come back with the next TransDEM version. However, we are all in Auran's hand and if they decide to introduce more file format changes I have to catch up again.

The latest TS2009 patch end of January introduced new file versions for .gnd, .obs, and .trk and, in a way, also for config.txt. You would now need to temporarily substitute all the files, except for .bmk to bypass the file format issues.

I am still working on the necessary modifications in TransDEM but have reached a state similar to the one before the last TS2009 patch, meaning most of my tests succeed again.
Thanks Geophil;
I truly understand what you are up against. I will wait patiently for the next ver of Transdem, and hope that Auran doesn't change formats again with SP2, which they are working on for TS2009 WBE.
In the mean time, I will continue to work on my route, but will not place any new roads, since that is really the only thing I need Transdem for right now.

Again, thanks for your work, and for your reply to my question.

FW

[beavi501]

thanks for your help. I can now get utm overlays to show in trainz surveyor 2009. The utm ovelay seems to be partly submerged due to ground elevations. I can raise the UTM tile using object height propertys but when i add details to my map you cannot see what you are doing because with the UTM tile raises it obscures the view beneath it

[beavi501]

Is there any workaround to avoid the problem above regarding UTM tiles being partially submerged in the ground? If th UTM tiles are raised then the view of objects placed on the ground beneath is obscured so you cannot see what you are doing

[backyard]

:cool: You will have to find the "show grid" button atop the page in Surveyor...

In grid view, you can see the UTM Tiles if they are imported.

Usually the UTM Tiles will show up & a left click will lower them to the default under grid view....

Did I say default? You can assign the view using the TrainzDEM Export utility to set the UTM Tiles to whatever level you wish.:D

What a marvelous Digital Elevation Modeling Utility TransDEM is!

Thanks Roland...!;)

Allen/Backyard

[geophil]

The third option in TransDEM besides ground textures and UTM tiles is vector data. Vector maps will be the long-term future anyway. Open Street Map is showing the way. Currently, though, you would trace line-style features in TransDEM yourself, railway lines, roads and rivers, and export to Trainz as splines.

[beavi501]

So basicly you are saying forget about using UTM ovrlay and just use vector maps to trace tracks etc? will give that a go and see what happens

[fwassner]

Will a new version of Transdem support Garmin's MapSource by any chance?
I have found that these (GPS) maps are a lot more accurate than GE for distances.

Example: Since I have installed SP1 for TS2009 and cannot export splines or anything else from Transdem, I am going through the tedious process of taking measurements from the road map and using TS rulers am placing the roads as close as I can get them to their actual position.

When using GE to measure, I get serious errors. GE always comes up short.
Perhaps if I am using a much lower eye alt, the maps would be more accurate, however, I don't want to spend the rest of my life doing this.
I switched to Garmin City Select NA ver 7 and am now getting much more accurate distances. Garmin maps are generated from GPS, not air images, so they should understandably be more accurate.

That said however, my original track splines were laid using Transdem and GE, and they came out very close to actual.
I suspect that Transdem "knows" how to use GE, and I do not<g>.

One word of warning for anyone using Transdem with TS2009.
DO NOT INSTALL SP1!!!
Transdem will not export or import anything from TS2009 SP1.
I learned this too late, and you cannot move a route back from SP1 to pre-SP1. It appears that all of the map files have changed in SP1.

FW

[markbin]

Google earth uses the mercator projection; This means that the distances are only correct near the equator. All the rest is stretched; the further from the equator the more stretched. If you use GE you can best convert GEO to UTM.

[geophil]

Google Maps - like the other "Map Tile" systems - uses Mercator. Google Earth is based on the same data. However, for presentation the data is un-projected and then transformed to a Vertical Perspective projection.

Inaccuracies in raster data, however, will have to do with the original georeferencing of ortho-imagery.

Garmin maps, I'm afraid, will not be an option for TransDEM. Garmin has licensed the maps from NAVTEQ and others for use with Garmin only.

The future lies elsewhere: "Share-alike" copyrighted Open Street Map (http://www.openstreetmap.org). In its raster form, access to Open Street Map in TransDEM had been made possible with version 1.3. In its vector form support will become a task for TransDEM in the long term, not for the next version.


Route file format issues with TS2009:
The original TS2009 WBE release changed the .gnd file format compared to Classics and TS2006.
SP1 changed the .gnd file format again.
The patch end of January changed route file formats .gnd, .obs and .trk.

config.txt was also affected regarding tag values.

The next version of TransDEM will concentrate on the "final" TS2009 route file formats, currently subsumed as "Build 3.0". It will not support any of the intermediate formats.