I would like to add a crew to some locos...

[motorbreath]

Hello. I'm seeking info on how to add a crew to a crewless loco. I would like to use the Sandy River locos on my narrow gauge route, but the cabs are empty!! Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[narrowgauge]

If the creator did not add attachment points for the crew in the cab then you are out of luck.

Rich Blake 'slugsmasher' made the Forney locos and I made the others. I suggest that you sort out the KUIDs for the crew you want to add, email Rich to ask if he can help, what he does is up to him, and email me, and if I can find the relevant meshes and find the time, I will add the attachments in mine.

This answers your email to Sirgibby. Just a question that puzzles me, why did you ask Mike Sutton, both Rich and I have our email address in the config file so why not ask direct.

Cheers

Narrowgauge

[dzien50]

Hi
On this subject why do creators not include crew or the abillity to add them, so many locos are not run because they look so stupid being driven by no one ! what a waste of time and effort, sad really
PJ

[bernhart_lossiemouth]

you could go the long way round.

-open the mesh in 3D Object Converter,
-save in a suitable, or funky format,
-open in GMAX or suitable 3D editor of your choice. Blender if you are poor and impoverished.
-add an attachment point or a few
-remap if necessary
-create new asset with your name and kuid
-sex up the config by adding your driver kuid of choice
-possibly release for everyone else to enjoy
-sit back and take full credit for everything while pleading ignorance to the useless copyright laws that mean nothing to mere mortals such as yourself.
-post some screenshots on the forum

BL

[narrowgauge]

PJ

The locomotives in question were made before anyone considered that crew members were needed. If you think it is sad, put your money where your mouth is, learn to use Gmax or Blender, make a presentable crew and I will gladly modify the mesh to include them.

Until then, shut up!

Narrowgauge

[bernhart_lossiemouth]

Ahh poor narrowgauge, now look what you've done PJ.

Apologies would be accepted, but in handwriting please.

B-L

[teddytoot]

If the creator did not add attachment points for the crew in the cab then you are out of luck....
Cheers

Narrowgauge
Peter, I'm suprised that as an experienced and long time modeller you haven't seen my posts in the past about adding extra meshes to provide extra/missing attachment points.

Motorbreath, do a search on teddytoot and mesh and you will find several references to the method. You will need an elementary knowledge of GMax or similar and will need to modify the config file. Remember if you do this it can be for your own use only and must not be uploaded or distributed.

[narrowgauge]

teddytoot

I'll pit my ancient against your ancient - I'll put down 80 years less about 15 days - see you?

I am not really concerned about people adding crew, if they ask me I will provide the mesh but I dislike second-guessing about why didn't we do this or that. Especially when it is 'sad really'. I have no urge to help them, if they want to use your method, I am happy but I feel no need to point it out to them, I had no idea it existed.

What seems to have been ignored is that if I was provided with crew members to work to, I would modify the mesh. Sad really.

What irks me is the assumption that we should be providing everything our users expect, freeware is just this, provided for no cost with no guarantees or 'after sales service' given.

Cheers

Narrowgauge

[johnwhelan]

teddytoot

I'll pit my ancient against your ancient - I'll put down 80 years less about 15 days - see you?

I am not really concerned about people adding crew, if they ask me I will provide the mesh but I dislike second-guessing about why didn't we do this or that. Especially when it is 'sad really'. I have no urge to help them, if they want to use your method, I am happy but I feel no need to point it out to them, I had no idea it existed.

What seems to have been ignored is that if I was provided with crew members to work to, I would modify the mesh. Sad really.

What irks me is the assumption that we should be providing everything our users expect, freeware is just this, provided for no cost with no guarantees or 'after sales service' given.

Cheers

Narrowgauge

I have a vague idea I just dropped in the appropriate attachment point and copied the crew bit from the config.txt file from one of Paul Hobbs locos when I added crews to a couple of my steam locos. Steam loco crews generally all look to be dressed in blue and have smoky streaks no matter when or where they crewed.

Cheerio John

[teddytoot]

Sorry Peter I didn't mean to offend you.

[narrowgauge]

Teddytoot

It was not you, john or motorbreath who offended me, if it appeared that way, I apologise.

The first part of that post was in reference to your 'Ancient Trainzer' tag. I wondered how ancient you were.

John

I can't see that working, if there is no attachment point in the mesh itself Trainz complains, especially TS2009.

As I said before, if motormouth does the searching and provides the KUIDs then I will see what I can do but I feel he should do part of the work.

Peter

[richardjh]

I can testify that narrowgauge is most helpful if you need a mesh (the Vulcan is coming along fine, Peter - thanks)
I have successfully used the method teddytoot describes a number of times when the loco mesh is not available. Driver and other attachment points work fine but running numbers using alphanumbers don't. But... you get round this by making the NEW mesh the default one in the config file and demoting the original body mesh.

[dzien50]

Peter
I did not intend to offend you, but I am allowed my opinion without you telling me to " shut up " which I find quite rude.
I did not grow up in a computer world and have no interest in them, trainz is the only game I have ever or will ever play.
I just thought that creators try to make realistic models ( maybe I'm wrong ) but if they do then my opinion is that a crewless loco is unrealistic and I suppose there are people who will agree with me and people who will not, thats life.
PJ

[johnwhelan]

John

I can't see that working, if there is no attachment point in the mesh itself Trainz complains, especially TS2009.

As I said before, if motormouth does the searching and provides the KUIDs then I will see what I can do but I feel he should do part of the work.

Peter

You create a second mesh and reference it in the config.txt file. If you have access the the original source then adding the attachment point is the best way to do it but the second mesh works it just makes Trainz work a bit harder.

Crew

crew
{
kind "attachment"
att "a.crew"
}

crew <kuid:44090:86>

Cheerio John

[narrowgauge]

PJ

Let's be friends. I am afraid that your 'pity really' caught me on a raw spot and I reacted.

Trainz has come a long way from its beginnings as a Model Railway Simulator and for a long time people were happy just to have the program, odd things like having a crew were not considered to be important. Now there is more emphasis on realism and naturally people expect crews and more working details.

The SR&RL locos were made in the version before TRS2004 and driver and stoker were not considered. I could just add the required attachment points but without knowing what height the models are made for, it could end up with the driver up in the air or knee deep in the cab floor. If someone wants to have the mesh and add the attachments, I am happy with that.

Peter

[narrowgauge]

John

Where do you place the a.crew attachment point? There must be something I am missing because I can't see it working.

Peter

[dzien50]

Peter

I agree friends are better than enimies ! but notice I started my comments by saying " on this subject "
It was a general observation and not aimed at you directly, in fact I don't even know the loco in question.
I have the utmost respect for creators and admire what they try to achive.
PJ

[johnwhelan]

John

Where do you place the a.crew attachment point? There must be something I am missing because I can't see it working.

Peter

Pulling up the GMAX mesh it's a just a normal point helper called a.crew I have it at X 0" Y 3 inches Z 0 ". That's if I remember enough about GMAX these days it's been a while since I used it.

I recall it took a tiny bit of playing around back and forth so that not too many arms were sticking out.

86627:1637 is an example.

Cheerio John

[motorbreath]

Wow. Didn't mean to cause a stink. For those who were trying to help, thanks. I haven't gotten into gmax yet, but thanks. And for content creators, extra thanks. I couldn't create locos that I would be happy with, I'm glad someone does.

[motorbreath]

Oh....... and I just hit the "email so and so" link at the bottom of the page I was downloading locos from.

[narrowgauge]

motorbreath

Don't worry about the 'stink'. I just reacted badly when I should not have done so.

Peter

[teddytoot]

The meshes that I make are based on the origin being at the origin of the original model and I take measurements from the mesh as shown in Fileviewer. The mesh requires a small textured object (I use a 10cm cube but it could be just one polygon if you wanted) positioned to be out of view. I can then add what missing attachment points and extra meshes such as seats, extra fittings, animated load, etc. that I want. I usually find that I need to usually fiddle with the position to get it right. Just for info for those that don't know, this only works for 2004 or later as you need the mesh table facility and you must alter the trainz build to 2.4 or higher. This also means for a pre 2004 config file it needs changing to the mesh table format.

Peter, ancient is as in having been around some time. As you will see my ID is 37096 (quite early). In fact I registered with Auran before Trainz appeared to get their MSTS DD40 model and as at that time I was an internet innocent (I retired from computer lecturing in 1991 just as Windows 3.1 arrived), this accounts for my rather stupid username. In fact I am 73 so a mere youngster.