DEM Help

[quakers1]

Hello everyone. After taking a break, I am back and ready to start on my next route. I am wanting to use a DEM, but I am not going to request one to be made. I am wanting to take on the challenge and make the DEM myself. I am not completely sure how to make DEMs, so I could use some help. I am wanting to use MicroDEM, so any other program is out of the question. Is it possible that you guys could help me out? Is there any tutorials out there that may help? I thank you advance for any help.

-quakers1

[StorkNest]

Never did more with this but I bookmarked a few sites.

This site has instructions for an older version. http://freepages.misc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wewain/trainz/Surveyor/Baseboard/Topology/TerrainGeneration/Computer-generatedTerrain.htm

Never got to try this utility.
http://trainz.luvr.net/projects-view.php?pid=743

[Jerker]

G'day quakers1,

As far as I can tell, the only major difference required for the newest version of MicroDEM from the instructions referred to above, is the need to use an external Graphics Manipulation Program to convert the exported *.tiff file into *.tga format. The new MicroDEM exports in native *.tga format (which is something I wish my own preferred Global Mapper would do). Otherwise Wewain's instructions should be followed as is...

Jerker {:)}

[quakers1]

Thanks for all of your help. I downloaded MicroDEM and HOG last night. But, I don't think Wewain gave a link to the US seamless data server. Do any of you all know the link to it? And one more question. Does making DEMs require both MicroDEM and HOG, or do you just use one or the other? I have both HOG and MicroDEM, but I am unsure if I need both to make DEMs. I'm going to try to make a DEM I've been wanting for awhile, and I'm sure some of you may know what it is. I thank you in advance for any help.

-quakers1

[Jerker]

G'day quakers1,

Not being 'local', I cannot recall the address exactly but I do remember that the 'acronym' "usgs" dot "something or other" (perhaps ".gov") will get you close (hang about a bit longer and someone who does know will be more specific, I'm sure). As for the other matter, you do, indeed, require both programs. MicroDEM 'creates' the data that is used by HOG to create the Terrain...

Jerker {:)}

[HiBaller]

You might give my little tutorial a try. Uses the same tools you are using.

http://www.virtualrailroader.com/DEM-Trainz.pdf

The NASA site which gives whole earth coverage is here:

ftp://e0srp01u.ecs.nasa.gov/srtm/

Bill

[Tokkyu40]

The National Map Viwer is here... http://nmviewogc.cr.usgs.gov/viewer.htm

and the Seamless Data Distribution Server is here...
http://seamless.usgs.gov/
You have to register for this one.
Also, both of them use pop-up windows to display the layers, so you'll need to allow that. I've had intermittent success with Opera and Firefox. IE has been the most reliable for accessing the data.

:cool: Claude

[StorkNest]

And also this site, to my knowledge the only place TIGER data is.
http://data.geocomm.com/

[quakers1]

Well guys, I tried to make the DEM following Wewain's instructions, but I was not successful. But, I'm not ready to give up and start asking for someone to make the DEM for me. I am not going to let all of the data I downloaded go to waste. To me, Wewain's instructions seem very outdated. Is it possible any of you guys here could give me up-to-date, step-by-step instructions on how to make DEMs using MicroDEM and HOG? I thank you in advance for any help.

-quakers1

[HiBaller]

Did you look at my PDF tutorial. I think it's pretty clear and simple.

Bill

[quakers1]

I just looked at it. It's pretty clear, but, I am wondering how to merge the multiple DEM files I downloaded from http://data.geocomm.com (http://data.geocomm.com) into one DEM. The exact files I downloaded are the Harrisburg West, Harrisburg East, Hershey, Palmyra, Lebanon, Richland, Womelsdorf, Sinking Spring, Reading, and Temple DEM files. I also downloaded the TIGER data for Dauphin, Lebanon, and Berks County. I need to merge all my DEM files so I can have me one big DEM file. But I'm unsure how to do this.:confused:

-quakers1

[HiBaller]

On the top of the MicroDEM screen there is a tab marked "In/Out". Without loading ANY DEM maps, click this and go to the Merge -> Pick Multiple menu entry. Choose the maps you wish to merge into one map and then click OK. This will merge them into one file.

I might caution you though with this: Merging as many as you want to merge will create a HUGE file. When you expand it further to create the bitmapped final DEM it will grow even larger. I would suggest that you merge two, or maybe three, and make one DEM. Then, merge two or three again and make a second DEM. Once they are both created, make two new routes in Trainz (one for each part) and then, after your get them into Trainz, merge them using Trainz itself.

Bill

[quakers1]

Ok, I put all the files in order, and I tried to merge them. Here is the text message I got on both the Harrisburg DEM files.

"Incorrect datum; not included in merge"

What should I do about this?

-quakers1

[Dermmy]

Hi Bill, Q1

The 'DEMs' Quaker is downloading are USA 'Quads', not full-sized Dem files as found on the NASSA etc sites. I wouldn't try many more than 10 at once, but merging 10 shouldn't be a problem, although it will take microdem a few seconds to save the file (might even look 'frozen' for a moment)...

Andy :)

[geophil]

It's been a few years since I used MicroDEM. I can't remember whether MicroDEM would be able to re-project coordinate systems or shift geodetic datums or the the fly. To avoid any risk, make sure all files to be merged are in the same coordinate system and based on the same geodetic datum. The coordinate system you want will be UTM and the geodetic datum WGS84. Some of the US DEMs are already delivered as UTM/WGS84 but those downloaded from Seamless Server will be in Plate Carrée pseudo projection, i.e they will have lat/long coordinates. MicroDEM offers all the necessary conversion/transformation functions.

[quakers1]

Hey Andy, I'm only merging 8 of them, so it should not be a problem at all.:) Oh yeah, do you know how to fix the problem I have. I posted what the problem was in my reply above yours. If I can get it straightened out, I'll be on my way.:) I thank you in advance for any help.

-quakers1

[Dermmy]

Q1 I have merged the same area. You have picked the worst possible area for a first attempt because you have quads from different 'zones' in your merge and - silly as it sounds - North is not in the same place for all your files.

You need to convert all references to lat/long, which gets a bit tricky.

Alternatively if you can give me 48 hours, I will upload a truly huge bare-boards DEM route which I am pretty sure includes the area you want to model.

A word of warning tho - the lat/long conversion results in imperfect terrain and poor DEM/Tiger alignment....

Andy

[Dermmy]

Slightly Off Topic

Hi Geophil - there is a thread in the forum where you and I discussed my problems with this very same project. I have searched in vain, but can't find it. Your memory may be better than mine, any recollections?

edit - FOUND IT - see below :)

Andy

[quakers1]

Go ahead and upload that DEM. But, is it possible you can add the TIGER data to the DEM? I'll lop off what I don't need. And if you upload it, Andy, will it be to your site?

BTW thanks for hosting Sureshot's NS C40-8s Andy! I sent a PM to Sureshot at the RRMods forum asking if I could host his NS SD70M-2s, NS GP60, and NS MP15DCs at my site. I'm waiting for a reply.

-quakers1

[Dermmy]

Quakers this thread (http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=11756) describes your problem and the fix.

Let me know if you want to work it through yourself or grab my route.

Couple of points -

(1) working it through would be a worth-while project, if you can do this one you have mastered TransDem and

(2) my blank route is huge - deleting out the boards you don't want will take as long as doing it the hard way

Let me know....

andy :)

[Dermmy]

Go ahead and upload that DEM. But, is it possible you can add the TIGER data to the DEM? I'll lop off what I don't need. And if you upload it, Andy, will it be to your site?

BTW thanks for hosting Sureshot's NS C40-8s Andy! I sent a PM to Sureshot at the RRMods forum asking if I could host his NS SD70M-2s, NS GP60, and NS MP15DCs at my site. I'm waiting for a reply.

-quakers1

The route is DEM/TIGER via HOG. Yes, it will be at Checkrail.com, even bare boards it is too big for the DLS (40mb). NP on the C40-8's, and I already asked about his other stuff, Frank will be hosting it at Trainstation :)

[quakers1]

I won't worry about hosting Sean's other stuff, then. Frank's been busy lately, so that will explain why he hasn't posted him just yet.

And as far as your question to me, Andy, I'm just going to grab your route. It will be quicker to do so. I'm devoting to more research on the the Harrisburg Line while I wait for my track charts to arrive. Just to be exact, I'm only going to model the Harrisburg-Reading segment of the Harrisburg Line. The route will be around 58 miles long when completed.

-quakers1

[HiBaller]

Looka like you're off to a good start them. I realized just a bit ago that these might be smaller quads instead of the big NASA files. I have merged as many as 12 of them, but when I tried 15 the output file was too large for me to handle. Don't know really why, but two attempts failed.

Thanks guys for jumping in here. Much appreciated I'll bet.

Bill

[geophil]

Slightly Off Topic

Hi Geophil - there is a thread in the forum where you and I discussed my problems with this very same project. I have searched in vain, but can't find it. Your memory may be better than mine, any recollections?

edit - FOUND IT - see below :)



@Andy,

I completely forgot about this one. Yes, unwrapping Mother Earth to a plane has its challenges. :D

[Dermmy]

OK, the Terrain Only route is available. Click my sig banner, then go to the Trainz Downloads page and scroll to the bottom....

Andy :)

[quakers1]

Andy, I got your DEM, and looked through it. Sadly, I could not find the line I was looking for. Maybe I should look through all the DEMs at GAURC and see if there's anything near the area I'm modeling. But, this does not mark the end of the Harrisburg Line.

-quakers1

[Dermmy]

dam - I was certain I had that bit, but you are just off the edge - doh!

okay, I have just about got a new route done for you, but have run out of time. Your specs miss a good looking bit on the south east and you only had about half the tigers you need listed. Anyway i think I have it all now but am outa time this morning. I will have it up for you in about twelve hours tho, so hang in there....

Andy :)

[quakers1]

Ok, I'm still with ya Andy! I will never bail out the Harrisburg Line. Never!:) But, I'm just going to stick with satellite images. I will most likely not use track charts cuz there are kinda expensive.

I'm still with you all!:)

-quakers1

[lsstaten]

anybody wanting track charts for all railroads from the 60's to present check this site out. i use it. the price isnt bad either.http://trainsite.8m.com/

[rwk]

Does anyone know why the Seamless Server map isn't displaying, the window is blank? It tries to load, then a line of garbled text appears on the upper left corner.

[geophil]

Seamless Server is known for this kind of drop-outs. It could be high demand, I don't know. I suggest to try again tomorrow.

[Dermmy]

Brand spanking new Hagerstown - Reading 'terrain only' route up at checkrail.com

Click my sig banner, find the 'Trainz Downloads' button and scroll to the bottom of the downloads page.

Couple of things - the dem data is probably the worst I have seen, a fair bit of terrain tweaking will be needed. The 'fit' of the Tiger data varies considerably from spot on to a long way off. Live with it :)

The route as uploaded is a bit bigger than quaker's original request, I hate tracks that disappear 'off the edge' half way along a route, so the original 10-quad brief grew to 14 and there is tiger data from a surprising 10 counties involved.

Have fun with it guys,

Andy ;)

PS for Q1 - your original problem with the merge was NOT two dem zones as I first supposed, but I suspect a mixture of 10 and 30 meter downloads. MicroDem can fix that in a flash....

PS for everybody - No - I do NOT do DEM terrains on request!

[quakers1]

Hey Andy, I went to your site, but I never found the DEM. The only one I could find was your Hagerstown-Big Pool-Martinsburg DEM. I never saw a Hagerstown-Reading one.

BTW thanks for making the DEM Andy!:Y:

-quakers1

[geophil]

I never saw a Hagerstown-Reading one.

How about a page refresh in your browser?

[quakers1]

It's there now. No worries. I'm downloading it right now!:)

I think we should all give a round of applause to Andy for making this. It is a very big contribution to the Harrisburg Line project.:clap:

Thank you Andy! Thank you! I can't describe how happy I am!:D

-quakers1:D

[Dermmy]

Oops - I forgot to delete the HOG texture that covers the ground - it doesn't show for me because I have removed it from my installation.

To see the grid do the following:

TRS04 Open the folder C:\program files\auran\trs04\world\custom\ground and move the folder named Hog19 onto the desktop. Start Trainz, load the route in Surveyor, click past the black screen and select 'Delete Missing Content' from the Surveyor menu. After you quit out of the program you can put Hog19 back where it belongs.

TRS06 Start CMP, find Hog19 in your local content, right click on it and select 'Edit in Explorer' from the pop-up menu. Again click and drag the Hog19 folder to the desktop. Load the route and select 'Delete Missing Content' from the Surveyor menu. You can now re-install Hog19 if you wish by using 'Import Content' from the CMP 'Files' menu (I wouldn't bother)....

Sorry about that....

Andy :)

Edit - I did this in a rush - never a good plan - the route is of course Harrisburg - Reading. Ho Hum

[quakers1]

Oops - I forgot to delete the HOG texture that covers the ground - it doesn't show for me because I have removed it from my installation.

To see the grid do the following:

TRS04 Open the folder C:\program files\auran\trs04\world\custom\ground and move the folder named Hog19 onto the desktop. Start Trainz, load the route in Surveyor, click past the black screen and select 'Delete Missing Content' from the Surveyor menu. After you quit out of the program you can put Hog19 back where it belongs.

TRS06 Start CMP, find Hog19 in your local content, right click on it and select 'Edit in Explorer' from the pop-up menu. Again click and drag the Hog19 folder to the desktop. Load the route and select 'Delete Missing Content' from the Surveyor menu. You can now re-install Hog19 if you wish by using 'Import Content' from the CMP 'Files' menu (I wouldn't bother)....

Sorry about that....

Andy :)

Edit - I did this in a rush - never a good plan - the route is of course Harrisburg - Reading. Ho Hum

Andy, the HOG texture that covers the ground is no problem to me. It actually makes things easier for me.

I still express my gratitude for your contribution to the NS Harrisburg Line. Thank you Andy, thank you for the DEM!:Y:

-quakers1