Trainz Classics 3rd Edition "Settle-Carlisle"

[Lance_Jago]

In what is sure to appeal to both steam and diesel enthusiast alike, Trainz Classics 3rd Edition will feature the famous U.K. based route of Settle-Carlisle centered around the 1960s in the North of England. Auran follows the successful release of Trainz Classics 1st and 2nd Edition with this highly detailed and prototypically accurate route.

Each new release of Trainz Classics is centered around a particular period in railway history, a particular traction type or a prototypical route. Settle-Carlisle will focus on steam and diesel freight and passenger operations around the late 1950s and '60s

This stretch of railway must arguably be some of the most famous track in the country. In the 1960s the passenger and goods services on the S&C were in transition. Although still one of the three major Anglo-Scottish routes its importance had been steadily downgraded since it had been grouped into the London Midland & Scottish Railway (LMS) in 1923. The frequency of express trains had been much reduced and the Manchester and Liverpool to Scotland expresses had been diverted to the West Coast main line many years previously. A sparse local passenger service covered the needs of the equally sparse population. Levels of through goods services were still high, mainly semi and fully fitted freight. The majority of these trains between the industrial centres of England and Scotland traversed the S&C at night. The block trains of anhydrite from Long Meg mine were a feature of the S&C together with the limestone and lime trucks which were collected daily from the limestone quarries and lime kilns in the Ribble Valley. Additionally there were the daily pick up goods trains, visiting the sheds, docks and sidings that were an integral part of most of the railway stations on the line.

Trainz Classics 3rd edition will ship complete with a number of Driver Sessions already configured for you to complete and take advantage of the rich history that surrounds this line. Each session will have an 'active' version in which you are at the controls and a 'passive' version where the auto (AI) driver will take charge and allow you to watch and learn as it goes through the required steps to complete the activities.

New features and improvements extend the possibilities with this latest edition.
-Updated Steam Characteristics, including particle effects, improved steam sounds and content
-New Semaphore Signalling, including New logic, New models and New animations
-Where appropriate, each locomotive has the AWS (Automatic Warning System) safety system in use at the prevailing time represented.
-Improved Passenger Asset Support
-Updated Interface including new steam locomotive controls

The Settle-Carlisle route has been painstakingly recreated by rail-sim.co.uk, the same team that created Hawes Junction for TRS2006. You can see more of their work at www.rail-sim.co.uk (http://www.rail-sim.co.uk/)

For more details about Trainz Classics 3rd Edition, please visit http://www.trainzclassics.co.uk/

Full details will be available on the Trainz Classics website in coming days at http://www.trainzclassics.com

Cheers.

[skiingiggy]

If we have TC First and second addition will we have to buy a whole new game ore will we be able to downl;oad the thrif edition like a service pack type thing? (searches for TC fir instilation or something) Really curius i am...

[Willem2]

Looking forward to giving it a run.

Cheers,

Bill.

[Louise_T]

If we have TC First and second addition will we have to buy a whole new game ore will we be able to downl;oad the thrif edition like a service pack type thing? (searches for TC fir instilation or something) Really curius i am...

Unless Lance proves me wrong you will have to buy the whole thing again

[Lance_Jago]

Yes, you will need to buy TC3 for the new features and content, however it is nowhere near the cost of a whole new game :)

Cheers.

[Louise_T]

but buy 2 or 3 of them and you will have spent more than a copy of 2006 which has a lot more than 3 routes in it.

[Pencil42]

Looking forward to the steam improvements, Lance!

[SuperFudd]

I guess I have not been watching closly but I only count one Classic prior to "3rd" edition. What were "1rst" and "2nd" ?

[skiingiggy]

1st abd second are both included in the first TC, abd are modula city and the har;me line.

[Magicland]

So what exactly is the "improved passenger asset support"? What's been improved? What does it do for us, as the end user, or as the content creator? Or is this more marketing gobbeldygook like that from TRS2006 (where it said there were improvements for the passengers, but none were ever actually explained)?

[Willem2]

Hi Magicland

Maybe the "improved passenger 'ass'et support" is providing seats and benches on the station platforms. ha ha !!!

Cheers,

Bill.

[Alex23]

Terrific Lance,

Really looking forward too this one.:D

Mind you, I hope you realize, "That's torn it". I now have to get as much "Midland" stuff ready as I can get my hands on. He he.:hehe:

Great stuff. Thanks Lance.:wave:

Alex

[colin55]

Is "Improved Passenger Asset Support" being able to choose passengers for different time periods?

[Mr.Jingles]

... for the new features and content ...

Until a screenshot or movie proves me wrong, with "Updated Interface" do you meant that it actually has been updated or does it mean that the interface received the same "Update" as with the 2 previous versions of TC ?

I'm sorry but coloring the interface red (TC1 and TC2) and maybe green (TC3) just doesn't mean that it has been improved for me.
Must be another marketing joke and yet another version I'll not buy.
If auran continues that way with the Trainz product line I may not have bought any update even when TC30 comes out. (and reading the forums there are quite a few more users thinking the same way)

That's a ridiculous approach of squeezing money out of (until now) satisfied customers.
Thankfully there's KRS being released soon and MSTS2 in the works, maybe these simulators will put some pressure upon auran if the loyal community is unable to do so.

I'm having some hard times understanding that "Fury" MMORPG approach either.
I mean, is throwing a WOW clone onto the market really going to produce any revenue at all ?
Sure, there's lots of money to be made, as blizzard showed us already, but releasing a clone with the same model of charging for online play when there are MMORPGs around that have the same hack-and-slash kind of gameplay, being absolutely free (Guild Wars for example), that just can't work I'd say.
If there would be anything separating it from WOW it may work, but reading the feature list and watching the movies and game convention interviews it's nothing more than a clone. (as a sidenote, I don't own WOW either)

My guesses are that this will end up as the MAC OS version of Trainz, only difference being that Fury is being released and only a few hundred will buy it.
If I am right, then this will be another example of wasted development time in which a new and improved TRS could have made it to the market, but we'll see.

Tata
Mr.Jingles

[Capt_Scarlet]

Well I know that I will be getting it, as I have been waiting for this route to be released and if its part of TC then all the better as I get the route I wanted and updates to the core system.

As to Fury from what I understand it isn't a WOW clone and is offering something different in the way it works ( I believe its going to be free to play )and apparently its fun, though I wont be getting it as those type of games aren't my cup of tea so to speak.

John

[Euphod]

......and I liken Trainz Classics to that fact! The numbers that post here may fancy themselves Train Fans, but the numbers that will buy TC are just looking for some easy, self contained game with Trains in it. They probably have no notion of the Trainz Versions that came before, and they will make up the bulk of the sales. Some will come here, but most will not.

Skippy and Jif probably sell equally well....after all; Peanut Butter is Peanut Butter!

I'm happy for the neglected UK guys, now they get the Classics treatment for themselves! And if anyone is keeping score, it seems Auran created routes are down two to one to routes created by the community, which may have been released for free anyway, or offered as payware for less than the cost of Classics.

I seem to remember this route from MSTS anyway.......not much detail to render, kind of empty and bleak.......like the Harlem Line?

Ed

[Forest_Runner]

Still a "no" here.

Not a dig at the TC Classics concept. As with the first two routes, this route doesn't appeal to me. Well done on another release, however.

It would be good if one of the Auranites could elaborate a little on some of the improvements/refinements though. Remember, whilst some of us haven't tested the water yet, it doesn't necessarily mean one won't be diving into the pool eventually.

Cheers,
Simon

[paulhobbs]

Is "Improved Passenger Asset Support" being able to choose passengers for different time periods?
Can I suggest that if anybody has any sensible suggestions that they post them in the correct Forum? So far there has been a depressing lack of suggestions as to what people would like to see.

Now the cat has been let out of the bag you all know what the major changes will be in TC so let's hear what you want (and don't bother suggesting a new JET engine).

Paul

[teddytoot]

It looks as if the mystery loco is a 9F. I haven't a clue about the shunter however; it looks the same as the Jinty.

[flathog]

I dare say its the payware model by Paul Hobbs. The Small tank engine shunter:p

Tom

[paulhobbs]

I dare say its the payware model by Paul Hobbs. The Small tank engine shunter:p

Tom
It's not, it's a new model.

Paul

[Harry_James_Potter]

In what is sure to appeal to both steam and diesel enthusiast alike, Trainz Classics 3rd Edition will feature the famous U.K. based route of Settle-Carlisle centered around the 1960s in the North of England. Auran follows the successful release of Trainz Classics 1st and 2nd Edition with this highly detailed and prototypically accurate route.
Cheers.


At last...

A Trainz Classics I might actually buy and hopefully, it will bring much improved steam physics and support

regards

Harry

[Harry_James_Potter]

but buy 2 or 3 of them and you will have spent more than a copy of 2006 which has a lot more than 3 routes in it.

And a whole host of content that had errors that CMP ignored!!

regards

Harry

[Vern]

Although my views on Trainz Classics have been made in other threads I may buy TC3 as the route is of interest (note the publicity says it goes from Skipton to Carlisle rather than just the Settle to Carlisle of the default MSTS route). There is also a nice selection of motive power and rolling stock - I'm taking a stab that the two mystery diesels will be a Class 40 and Class 44/45/46 Peak (though I may be wrong).

However the pack is of interest to me for the content not the TC concept. That remains, IMHO, how this project should have been approached so the route and content could either be run standalone or added into TRS2006 in a similar manner to the West Somerset Railway along with any patches to the core programme, rather than the mish mash we are getting.

[skiingiggy]

This is actually interesting nd i may get it after l;ooking at all of the stuff. Now all we need is a TC for the golden age of steam here in the USA lol

[SHP]

It seems that those guys who said TC will be something like selling Service Packs were right. I'm not against the new principle in general, it was time to get rid of all the build-in content and to offer such specialised editions.
But now we will face more and more problems. When TC was announced Auran told us something like "Well, if someone doesn't like a certain edition there will be no need to buy it." That would be no problem if not every new TC brings new features that are not implemented in older versions. I think that a lot of Trainzers are only interested in Trainz itself using their own downloads to customise it. To use all downloads you need to be up to date which you are no longer if TC 3 will be some "2.8 #who-knows".
How could I forget that TC sells at a lower price than a full version? Because you are forced to buy all of them with little improvements only. If this new idea of selling Service Packs (Yes, I'd call it rather TRS2006 SP2 [minus build-in content plus route and rolling stock].) stays, more and more people will see their Trainzing endangered.
I do not want to sound too harsh but in the moment I have immense doubts whether this is the best way for Trainz's future.

[skiingiggy]

Well if trainz goes under at auran, my site will still stay strong with our few members and stick with 06 and where possible o4.... and we have almost all topics here so people can oin us if need be.... But BTW: If auran release TC Routes that eople actually want it may stay strong, but i think you are right: TC is making Trainz;s Fiture very unclear.

[PVincent342]

Hi Magicland

Maybe the "improved passenger 'ass'et support" is providing seats and benches on the station platforms. ha ha !!!

Cheers,

Bill.
or maybe lightweight coaches wont have seats that go sideways :l

[Moojgoo]

If the price is cheap enough, I am DEFIANTLY getting this release! I love UK stuff, and I love this route! MSTS had it by default and I miss it, now I get to play on it again!

[Boobless_ed]

We're getting a 94 mile route, eleven locos, much of which we've never had the chance to drive in TRS, a whole new set of rolling stock, plus a host of other updates to the game engine.

This is for a price that isn't that far off many payware routes.

I think it'll be well worthwhile.

[S301]

I will probably get it. I enjoy running the Hawes Junction layout in TRS06, so this version should be great. The semaphore 'logic' improvements sound good, hopefully a set of Victorian Railways semaphores can be made with this new logic...
Zec

[zatovisualworks]

but in the moment I have immense doubts whether this is the best way for Trainz's future.

IMVHO, it could be if TC is not the target but the way to get funds to future research, development and releases. Let's be realistic, who pay for new products and inventions? Customers who buy the previous ones. That's life in business and that will be so.

The only doubt underlies if Brisbane team really considers this TC stage as a target or as passageway to something new.

As a long time customer, contributor and supporter of Trainz and the Brisbane team, I must say that I was impressed by TRS2006 but not by TC at all on the first and second instalments.

By buying TC I'll keep supporting this Trainz adventure which gives me glorious moments of fun but... for sure some of the TC chapters will be kept stored and untouched over here. Maybe I've been a trainzer for too long and it's being addictive. I'd lie if I told you I'm happy with TC, but my hope is it is just a temporary passageway.

In some other posts I stated that I didn't think the Brisbane team to be deaf and blind to things happening over here and out there in the troubled waters of train gaming competition. I believe it still, until facts prove the opposite.

I think it was Rob (my apologies if not) who said we hardcore trainzers are not their main bulk target market. I agree; we are loyal customers but not eternal, and ageing is unforgiving for everybody, people and games.

Take care and notice,

Have a good weekend, fellow trainzers.

Alberte :)

[ex-railwayman]

There is also a nice selection of motive power and rolling stock - I'm taking a stab that the two mystery diesels will be a Class 40 and Class 44/45/46 Peak (though I may be wrong).


Hello Vern, reading what Lance has printed and what is on the UKRailSim website, I would hazard a guess that the mystery diesel loco's will be 2 Class 40's similar to the built-in ones on TRS. One with a centre headcode box and the other with split boxes, both in green livery like the Class 37's. :hehe:
However the route sounds interesting, although as was mentioned previously by euphod it is a bleak and desolate part of our country, I would have thought that a winter version might have offered a bit more enjoyment IMHO.

Cheerz. ex-railwayman.

[zatovisualworks]

it is a bleak and desolate part of our country

No more desolation, please. Harlem line is enough, and we have wonderful grass creators over here. ;)

Grass by Good Old Vendie and Roberto Conti on Zatoburgo Plains... :hehe:

http://galeria.ibertrainz.eu/albums/userpics/10008/magyargrasssplines.jpg

(From Bob Dylan's 'Desolation Row')

They're selling postcards of the hanging
They're painting the passports brown
The beauty parlor is filled with sailors
The circus is in town
Here comes the blind commissioner
They've got him in a trance
One hand is tied to the tight-rope walker
The other is in his pants
And the riot squad they're restless
They need somewhere to go
As Lady and I look out tonight
From Desolation Row

Alberte :)

[Magicland]

or maybe lightweight coaches wont have seats that go sideways :l

They don't, in TRS2004 (which they were designed for). Auran broke the feature when they changed the way in which animations were handled in TRS2006.

[SuperFudd]

I had that problem at first but it went away somehow. Probably CCP updated/fixed it.

[Harry_James_Potter]

It seems that those guys who said TC will be something like selling Service Packs were right. I'm not against the new principle in general, it was time to get rid of all the build-in content and to offer such specialised editions.
But now we will face more and more problems. When TC was announced Auran told us something like "Well, if someone doesn't like a certain edition there will be no need to buy it." That would be no problem if not every new TC brings new features that are not implemented in older versions. I think that a lot of Trainzers are only interested in Trainz itself using their own downloads to customise it. To use all downloads you need to be up to date which you are no longer if TC 3 will be some "2.8 #who-knows".
How could I forget that TC sells at a lower price than a full version? Because you are forced to buy all of them with little improvements only. If this new idea of selling Service Packs (Yes, I'd call it rather TRS2006 SP2 [minus build-in content plus route and rolling stock].) stays, more and more people will see their Trainzing endangered.
I do not want to sound too harsh but in the moment I have immense doubts whether this is the best way for Trainz's future.

Hands up here who plays the The Sims 2?

If you've bought some or all the add-ons that come with it, well done. If you're also the ones who are also moaning about the way that Auran do business with TC, then you're a hypocrite.

Almost every single expansion pack for The Sims 2 has not only added a bit of new functionality but has also acted as a great big product update.

regards

Harry

[builder300544]

Hands up here who plays the The Sims 2?

If you've bought some or all the add-ons that come with it, well done. If you're also the ones who are also moaning about the way that Auran do business with TC, then you're a hypocrite.

Almost every single expansion pack for The Sims 2 has not only added a bit of new functionality but has also acted as a great big product update.

The problem to me is that the TC series is not an add on to existing trains. I would have been a lot happier if it was. I would have no objection to paying for add ons to the existing game.

Regards, John

[johnchisem]

NO! NO! NO! NO! I have not played the Sims and I do not watch Big Brother, but then again I think that I do have a life! I'm not on here long this morning as I'm off up to Hellifield to get the water pipes out. When the 8F arrives I'm having another jolly up to Carlisle and back. When the tender is refilled it's time to put the pipes are put away and it's home to see Mrs C:) I must remember to look out for the desolate landscape on the trip, all I seem to recall is some rather nice scenery!

It looks like I will be buying TC after all, not bad for a confirmed Luddite.

John

[amigacooke]

So TC 3 is focussed on British steam. Mark me up as another potential sale. :)

Is there any indication of when this is due to be published?

[Vern]

So TC 3 is focussed on British steam. Mark me up as another potential sale. :)

Is there any indication of when this is due to be published?

They are rather compelling.

Mind the 37's look good and if there's a 40 or 45 in the final pack - yegods!

The irony of course then is that I really would be torn between building any future routes in TRS2004 or moving to TC3 just to have such a varied selection of UK motive power available by default.

[amigacooke]

The irony of course then is that I really would be torn between building any future routes in TRS2004 or moving to TC3 just to have such a varied selection of UK motive power available by default.

Well CMP isn't as bad as it's painted once you get it working. :)

[BidMod]

Hi all,

Apologies if the following doesn't appear very congruent - I just wanted to get my thoughts posted :confused:

I've noticed a few people comparing this to the MSTS version of the route - it should be stressed that the MSTS version does not have correct trackwork at Carlisle (even allowing for the changes over the years) and should not really be compared to this new Trainz version. That said it is fun to drive :) - just not accurate. :(

Anyway - I like the look of this new route and I'll probably get a copy. Big thanks to the Rail Sim team.

Does anyone think the shunter mystery loco looks a little like a L&Y pug (or something about the same size)?

Personally, I think the S&C runs through some of the best scenery in Britain :D (compare it to the WCML through highly industrialized areas, for example), and this is MS's failing, giving people a false impression about Cumbria and North West Yorkshire (the best scenery is on the Ravenglass 15" line, but that's a subject for elsewhere). I don't think it's desolate - just a bit remote in places ;)

The only problem will be the legacy issues :( As said - CMP is fine when you've figured it out. I might just run '06 and TC3 side by side. :)

Mike - how does the AI manage the Carlisle throat? Is it simplified at all?

Regards,
BidMod.

[Mike10]

However the pack is of interest to me for the content not the TC concept. That remains, IMHO, how this project should have been approached so the route and content could either be run standalone or added into TRS2006 in a similar manner to the West Somerset Railway along with any patches to the core programme, rather than the mish mash we are getting.
But those who install it into '06 won't get the new features unless it is also patched, as somewhat in-exact science it would seem. This way you get the pack contents on a clean, updated codebase. You can copy the '06 content that you want over into your new TC install and have your old favourited running on the new code.

Now that, to me, is the best of both worlds.

Mike.

[Mike10]

It seems that those guys who said TC will be something like selling Service Packs were right. I'm not against the new principle in general, it was time to get rid of all the build-in content and to offer such specialised editions.
But now we will face more and more problems. When TC was announced Auran told us something like "Well, if someone doesn't like a certain edition there will be no need to buy it." That would be no problem if not every new TC brings new features that are not implemented in older versions.

Or, look at it this way....

Say you weren't interested in the updates, features, or routes and content in packs 1,2,3,4 and decided not to buy them. Then along comes TC5 and it's your favourite route and it has some cool new features you want. When you buy it you will get all the fixes and new features in packs 1,2,3,4 for free!! Now that is a bargain ;)

Mike.

[Mike10]

However the route sounds interesting, although as was mentioned previously by euphod it is a bleak and desolate part of our country, I would have thought that a winter version might have offered a bit more enjoyment IMHO..
I'd say beautiful rather than desolate myself.

There should be some pictures on the website soon (can't guarantee when though ATM) so you can get a better idea of the country the route runs through.

Mike.

[Mike10]

Mike - how does the AI manage the Carlisle throat? Is it simplified at all?
Two questions, two sort of non-answers I'm afraid.

Not my department, getting the AI to behave ;)

How simplified was the track on Hawes Junction?

Mike.

[BidMod]

How simplified was the track on Hawes Junction

I couldn't comment about that, because I don't know what the track should look like, but since I would consider MS's Miss-Out-Most-Of-The-Crossovers-'Cos-We-Can't-Be-Bothered aproach as simplistic I would assume that the Hawes Junction is accurate. I did find that I could perform movements I expected to be able to happen though, so somethings clearly right with it :)

I only ask because all of my attempts at creating Carlisle Station have resulted in the AI just sitting outside looking confused, and occasionally seeing DRS movements ending in Platform 2 (I couldn't work out or understand why either). I suppose at least MSTS simple version works better than my attempts.

If it's all to the standard of Hawes Jct. I'll be impressed and very happy though, even if the throat is a little simplified. Just don't cut too much out ;)
BidMod.

[meridious]

Or, look at it this way....

Say you weren't interested in the updates, features, or routes and content in packs 1,2,3,4 and decided not to buy them. Then along comes TC5 and it's your favourite route and it has some cool new features you want. When you buy it you will get all the fixes and new features in packs 1,2,3,4 for free!! Now that is a bargain ;)

Mike.

But what you won't get is built in content from previous versions which will be needed when someone creates a route from previous versions. the buyer of version 5 only is then forced to purchase the previous versions in order to run said route. Where exactly is the bargain ? :confused:

[Mike10]

But what you won't get is built in content from previous versions which will be needed when someone creates a route from previous versions. the buyer of version 5 only is then forced to purchase the previous versions in order to run said route. Where exactly is the bargain ? :confused:I didn't say it was a perfect bargain ;)

Lets look a little deeper beyond the initial negativity of the situation though.

I suspect we may be seeing routes labelled with which pack's content they use. Given that each pack has content from a specific area that does actually make some sense. Why do I need the palm trees and such like from the Australian route pack if I'm making a route across the Rockies using the Canadian pack's content.

We may see, for example.

"Route requires: TC1 content only"
"Route requires: TRS2006, TC1 & some DLS content"
"Route requires: TC1 & TC3 content only"
"Route requires: TC1,TC3 & some DLS content"
etc etc

By the time we get to the 5th or 6th Classics release what do you think the going rate for TC1 and 2 will be. I'll wager picking up that content won't be a major fiscal planning exercise.

I don't think there is anything I'd use from either TC1 or TC2 if I were creating a UK route. I may use some TRS2006 content (not exactly expensive now and a lot of it was DLS stuff that got included in the box so can be obtained from the DLS still) or DLS stuff to top up what's in the box though.

It works for me, but (as you know) I am annoyingly postive in my outlook. ;)

Mike.

[DaveW]

Hi,
An interesting web site:-

http://www.settle-carlisle.co.uk/

DaveW

[Paulsw2]

Hello Vern, reading what Lance has printed and what is on the UKRailSim website, I would hazard a guess that the mystery diesel loco's will be 2 Class 40's similar to the built-in ones on TRS. One with a centre headcode box and the other with split boxes, both in green livery like the Class 37's. :hehe:

SDark's class 40s were not built-in as far as I'm aware and, while they're perfectly nice models in themselves, they're a bit long in the tooth now compared with the best and latest TRS locos IMHO. For this to be a credible TC release, I assume we will be getting brand new class 40s (if that's what the 'mystery' diesel is.)

It looks as though the mystery large steam loco is a 9F. I recall that LieLestoSbrat has been developing both a 9F AND a class 40. Now that's an interesting coincidence! :eek:

[amigacooke]

But what you won't get is built in content from previous versions which will be needed when someone creates a route from previous versions. the buyer of version 5 only is then forced to purchase the previous versions in order to run said route. Where exactly is the bargain ? :confused: It makes previous versions of TC like payware then. If you want to run a route that includes payware, you have to cough up. Is that really unreasonable?

[BidMod]

I've been thinking more about this shunter - could it be a Drummond [sp?] locomotive? I wouldn't expect so in this era, but it has the right profile.

[Wessex_Electric_Nutter]

So far there has been a depressing lack of suggestions as to what people would like to see.

Yeah, my railbus (Class 141) added to one of the sessions, since it would look reasonably authentic in that scenario, even if its a 1980s unit!

EDIT: If you are wondering why that suggestion was brought about, thats because none of the team, actually considered any sort of Multiple Units that would of ran on the line anyway, therefore, doesn't count as satisfying the needs for all diesel fans!
If Class 37s are included (and they were built later than most 101s!), why are you denying us to the DMMUs as well? After all, the 37s were part of BR's modernisation plan, so were the DMMUs, which deserve the same recongition in history, as they did reduce the operating costs of all branch lines, thus saved some from complete closure.

[Louise_T]

Yeah, my railbus (Class 141) added to one of the sessions, since it would look reasonably authentic in that scenario, even if its a 1980s unit!

EDIT: If you are wondering why that suggestion was brought about, thats because none of the team, actually considered any sort of Multiple Units that would of ran on the line anyway, therefore, doesn't count as satisfying the needs for all diesel fans!
If Class 37s are included (and they were built later than most 101s!), why are you denying us to the DMMUs as well? After all, the 37s were part of BR's modernisation plan, so were the DMMUs, which deserve the same recongition in history, as they did reduce the operating costs of all branch lines, thus saved some from complete closure.

I agree with wen on this. Not just auran but all of the railsims MSTS didn't have 1 english DMU/EMU in it. Auran didn't think about building one. Not seen one in Kuju (which I will be buying and will prob move over to till Auran start listening to the loyal customers). I don't know why 1st gen DMU's are so hostrasised by a lot of the rail comunity they did a great deal for our network like keeping alot of branch lines open.

[ex-railwayman]

SDark's class 40s were not built-in as far as I'm aware and, while they're perfectly nice models in themselves, they're a bit long in the tooth now compared with the best and latest TRS locos IMHO. For this to be a credible TC release, I assume we will be getting brand new class 40s (if that's what the 'mystery' diesel is.)
It looks as though the mystery large steam loco is a 9F. I recall that LieLestoSbrat has been developing both a 9F AND a class 40. Now that's an interesting coincidence! :eek:

Hello Paul, yes, you are perfectly correct in spotting the deliberate mistake :hehe: . I meant to mean "similar to the built-in Class 37's" not the Class 40's as they are indeed on the DLS, my apologies.
You may be correct with your assumption regarding LieLestoSbrat's locomotives, and his quality of work would be a huge bonus if that is the case. Of course I am personally completely biased in suggesting that the "mystery" diesel will be a Class 40, but as the scene is set in the late 1950's to early 1960's, and this class of loco was abundant in this area to work both freight and passenger trips, I cannot think what other large locomotive it could possibly be judging by the large-shaped, bulbous nosed, blacked out locomotive photograph on UKSim's website.
I suppose it will be a case of "wait and see until the game comes out" scenario.


Cheerz. ex-railwayman.

[SHP]

@Mike10: Do you believe every route builder to be aware of such things or even better not to use TC content? ;)

In general, I just cannot see any appropriate answer Auran has presented (yet) how to compete with KRS or MSTS2. Of course we know the advantages of Trainz but the potential user who enters a shop might not. "Trainz? Old stuff. Hey, what's that? RailSimulator, it's new. Have to buy it." If the TC concept stays I cannot see too many current Trainzers to stay with Trainz. Would you like to buy a new edition every 2-3 months only to be up-to-date? In the past we learnt this to be substantial as you can fix a lot of TRS2006 content to run in TRS2004 but you cannot download it. So, what to do in future? Wait 5 editions until an interesting TC is published? (OK, if Auran continues to update the DLS that fast, this problem will not occur too early.)
Well, we will have to wait and see ...

Be warned, the following section contains speculation! :)

By the way, this TC might be the first one I consider worth buying. But I'm rather interested in modern UK railways. Therefore I would not really want TC3. What about TC4? It could be something like "Melbourne suburbans", followed by TC5 "Steam dreams in California". Next one to be "The Gotthard route". Wow! But only a few weeks after the next release makes my TC6 out-dated. Something to look forward to?

However, let's hope TC3 will be outstanding (and the last TC :p). Good luck to all who are involved.

[LieLestoSbrat]

To me, as a steam man, and further more in many ways a UK steam man, this new release sounds right up my street. For one the new option/features (what ever you want to call them) sound great, and I could see myself moving over to this new version. One thing many steam loco devotes have been calling for is improvements to the physics and it sounds as if this release will be offering those. Other improvements to the steam engine sound great, and again I will be hoping for a system that at least support 2,3 and 4cyl engines. On the 4cyl front I'm hoping for a system that will support locos with the cranks set like the SR Lord Nelson class of locos (forgot the crank settings :S), as of course for 4cyl locos with the cranks set at 90 degrees, you can use the 2cyl sound system. Other features I'm also interesting in the steam arena are the new particle effects system. I'm very intrigued as to what these could be, or whether it is an improvement on the Twinkles effects system. The item that I'm looking forward to is the development and improvement of the Trainz signalling system to what seems to support realistic semaphore and block arrangements. I feel this on a whole will be one of the greatest features of this new release as it will benefit many people regardless of whether they are interested in either UK railways or steam locos. Another small bonus for me as well is the route chosen, While being a Midland route (LNER/eastern region man myself ;)) The S&C was used rather allot for performance trials of many classes of locos, and this of course will help me in creating accurate enginespecs for UK steam locos.

Rob

[DaveW]

Exactly my sentiments, LieLestoSbrat :)

Another interesting site, with photos of the terrain :-

http://www.visitcumbria.com/carlset/index.htm

DaveW

[Paulsw2]

Well done to Rob for neatly dodging my earlier speculation! :hehe:

I'll post here the same two pleas I posted in the UK forum (though they went unanswered, so I'm not getting my hopes up)....

Liveries - can we have locos and coaching stock available in blue, blue/grey as well as green and maroon - these liveries were in use from 1967 or thereabouts on the S&C I think.

Coaching stock - it would be great if we could get a new and definitive set of Mk1 stock (the basic coaching stock used on the line through the 60s).

Any answers this time I wonder? :p

[AndrewH]

........can we have locos and coaching stock available in blue, blue/grey as well as green and maroon - these liveries were in use from 1967 or thereabouts on the S&C I think......

Sorry I can't advise you about inclusion, or otherwise of blue, blue/grey. However green will definitely not be included.

[flathog]

I'm sure Auran's answer to compete with Kuju and MSTS2 will come soon:p :cool:

Tom

[paulzmay]

I didn't say it was a perfect bargain ;)

Lets look a little deeper beyond the initial negativity of the situation though.

I suspect we may be seeing routes labelled with which pack's content they use. Given that each pack has content from a specific area that does actually make some sense. Why do I need the palm trees and such like from the Australian route pack if I'm making a route across the Rockies using the Canadian pack's content.

We may see, for example.

"Route requires: TC1 content only"
"Route requires: TRS2006, TC1 & some DLS content"
"Route requires: TC1 & TC3 content only"
"Route requires: TC1,TC3 & some DLS content"
etc etc

By the time we get to the 5th or 6th Classics release what do you think the going rate for TC1 and 2 will be. I'll wager picking up that content won't be a major fiscal planning exercise.

I don't think there is anything I'd use from either TC1 or TC2 if I were creating a UK route. I may use some TRS2006 content (not exactly expensive now and a lot of it was DLS stuff that got included in the box so can be obtained from the DLS still) or DLS stuff to top up what's in the box though.

It works for me, but (as you know) I am annoyingly postive in my outlook. ;)

Mike.

Positive is good ;)

It will take a significant upgrade of the DLS and CMP to enable this kind of complex interdependency work. As a route builder, I would need to know what I'm placing, and where it comes from a little better than I do at the moment.

I can also see a good deal of cross-use of content between TC versions. I could see myself using a number of TC1&2 buildings in modern UK urban routes. The multi-lane traffic feature would also be very useful, along with the enhanced electric sounds. This is why I think that a bumper Trainz Classic version would be a good move for Auran at some point in the future.

Just my thoughts...

Paul

[Vern]

Well done to Rob for neatly dodging my earlier speculation! :hehe:

I'll post here the same two pleas I posted in the UK forum (though they went unanswered, so I'm not getting my hopes up)....

Liveries - can we have locos and coaching stock available in blue, blue/grey as well as green and maroon - these liveries were in use from 1967 or thereabouts on the S&C I think.

Coaching stock - it would be great if we could get a new and definitive set of Mk1 stock (the basic coaching stock used on the line through the 60s).

Any answers this time I wonder? :p

Personally I prefer the blood and custard (aka crimson & cream), seems to complement green (or black) liveried locos perfectly.

[AndyM77]

I'm sure Auran's answer to compete with Kuju and MSTS2 will come soon:p :cool:

Tom
Well, KRS is out in October so it'll be hard for Auran to compete with that new release - However MSTS-2 isn't going to be available until "Quarter 4", 2008/. So, Auran have about a year from now to bring out the 'killer app' to beat Microsoft :hehe:

[johnwhelan]

Well done to Rob for neatly dodging my earlier speculation! :hehe:

I'll post here the same two pleas I posted in the UK forum (though they went unanswered, so I'm not getting my hopes up)....

Liveries - can we have locos and coaching stock available in blue, blue/grey as well as green and maroon - these liveries were in use from 1967 or thereabouts on the S&C I think.

Coaching stock - it would be great if we could get a new and definitive set of Mk1 stock (the basic coaching stock used on the line through the 60s).

Any answers this time I wonder? :p

I think this is more down to the content creators and reskinners. Currently I'm working with others on a couple of projects to replace paintshed meshes with ones that can be reskinned conventionally. There is a US style boxcar and a basic MK1 shaped carriage that is getting stretched and squashed to create mainly GWR coaches at the moment.

Cheerio John

[amigacooke]

I'm sure Auran's answer to compete with Kuju and MSTS2 will come soon:p :cool:

Tom

Trainz for all its faults is a very flexible platform, so it may be that KRS and MSTS2 will fall short in some areas. Difficult to say anything definitive until KRS hits the shelves (and I can grab a copy :)).

[Louise_T]

Can someone please tell me if I can buy just the Settle & Carlisle route for trs 06 as Satain would be skating to work before I bought TC.

[johnwhelan]

Can someone please tell me if I can buy just the Settle & Carlisle route for trs 06 as Satain would be skating to work before I bought TC.

Just think of TC as TRS2006 with some small improvements.

CHeerio John

[johnwhelan]

Any one care to clarify

-Improved Passenger Asset Support

before I create a new passenger set.

Thanks John

[builder300544]

Just think of TC as TRS2006 with some small improvements.

I wish it was.!!!

Regards, John

[overmars]

Is there any news on a release date mike.Maybe you could do one of your trainz meetings on the day of release. Then you can see all our faces while explouring your route :)

[Paulsw2]

Personally I prefer the blood and custard (aka crimson & cream), seems to complement green (or black) liveried locos perfectly.
Yes, but unlikely to be seen on the S&C in the 1960s.

I think this is more down to the content creators and reskinners. Currently I'm working with others on a couple of projects to replace paintshed meshes with ones that can be reskinned conventionally. There is a US style boxcar and a basic MK1 shaped carriage that is getting stretched and squashed to create mainly GWR coaches at the moment.

OK, but if we're being asked to buy what is basically a payware route, I'd like to see some prototypical coaching stock to go with it. If the deal with TC is, 'here's the route, now sort out your own rolling stock,' then it's not quite as attractive as previously billed, is it?

And reskinning - it's not the way forward for Mk1s is it? We need a new, decent Mk1 mesh that enables proper interiors that are up to the current standard for coaching stock (check out Andi06's Pullmans and Gresley stock or the FMA CIWL stock). The bar has been raised and we need post-1951 UK coaching stock that meets it IMHO.

Easy for me to say I know as a non-GMAX person, but if Trainz continues to maintain a poor offer on UK coaching stock (partic. Mk1) and other sims, such as KRS, come along with a better offer (who knows?) then it will be difficult to maintain commitment to TRS.

For me, what we get with TC3 is an important test of whether Trainz is a rail sim of the future or the past. :eek:

[BidMod]

I think there's a photo in one of Dad's books of blood/custard stock in the 1960s. Though I'll concede that by the 60's most stock was Maroon it would be nice to have different colours available, such as blood/custard or BR blue, thus enabling the user to vary the time period.

It does say on the rolling stock page that the model is new. I guess this could be spun in any direction though, but think positive (like Mike).

Also - are these mystery diesel locos multiplying? I could have sworn there was only one before :confused:

[johnwhelan]

And reskinning - it's not the way forward for Mk1s is it? We need a new, decent Mk1 mesh that enables proper interiors that are up to the current standard for coaching stock (check out Andi06's Pullmans and Gresley stock or the FMA CIWL stock). The bar has been raised and we need post-1951 UK coaching stock that meets it IMHO.

Easy for me to say I know as a non-GMAX person, but if Trainz continues to maintain a poor offer on UK coaching stock (partic. Mk1) and other sims, such as KRS, come along with a better offer (who knows?) then it will be difficult to maintain commitment to TRS.

For me, what we get with TC3 is an important test of whether Trainz is a rail sim of the future or the past. :eek:

A highly detailed mesh means high polys, and a need for everyone to have a GTX8800 video card. As soon as you start putting windows into the mesh you start to reduce the number of variations that are easy to do. Each needs the windows in a slightly different place. I think there is a place for the highly detailed coach stock but there is also a place for the more humble reskin that relies more on texture than polys.

Cheerio John

[AndrewH]

I think there's a photo in one of Dad's books of blood/custard stock in the 1960s. Though I'll concede that by the 60's most stock was Maroon it would be nice to have different colours available, such as blood/custard or BR blue, thus enabling the user to vary the time period..........

By 1960 all the prestige trains on the LMR would have been new Mk1 stock in maroon livery. Secondary express and through services, being older stock, were a mixture of repainted maroon and the earlier carmine and cream (, a politer and more accurate description than blood and custard ). :)

Don't forget the non corridor stock. By 1960 there was no new building of these because of the change to dmus. However there was still a lot of carmine Mk1s and ex LMS vehicles to be seen. They soldiered on in that livery until the mid 1960s.

[Mike10]

Just to let everyone know that the trainzclassics.co.uk website has received the first of our planned regular updates today.

http://www.trainzclassics.co.uk/

Mike.

[BidMod]

Does this pave the way for interlocking signals and level crossings?
Signals will now be fully scriptable, to the extent where extending the logic will be possible when creating new assets. This should enable more accurate representation of signalling systems around the world.
I'd like to see this in a future version of Trainz.

Well done on semaphore logic by the way. Big thanks for this.

EDIT: This is far from desolate, isn't it! http://www.trainzclassics.co.uk/screenshots/gen_scenes/gen_scenes3.jpg. :cool:

Stitch that, MSTS. ;)

[Vern]

It looks like a good selection of buildings to contemplate a UK or European TC route along with some careful choices from the DLS (slightly OT but I'm getting rather addicted to the Perfect range of trees at present).

$64,000 question now is likely release date?! ;)

[Mike10]

$64,000 question now is likely release date?! ;)

Send me the $64,000 and I'll tell you the answer ;)

Mike.

[Wessex_Electric_Nutter]

Send me the $64,000 and I'll tell you the answer ;)

Mike.


This is actually quite funny (then again, I am also quite strange, like you needed to know that), some suggestions are better off left in the bin, like I was saying to my shop manager this afternoon.

They say "send in a suggestion and recieve £50 vouchers", which I have several relating to productivity, but the chances are, they'll go in the bin.

"Lets see a Multiple Unit of some type for Trainz Classics 3", errr.... yes...
binned, judging by the silence.

Unless Mike, you're saying "make it and get it to us by x date and then we might think about it". Judging by the way the group works, contributations and offers are not really that......... well thought of, are they?

[overmars]

Mike will; it be before the Kuji release:)

[Mike10]

"Lets see a Multiple Unit of some type for Trainz Classics 3", errr.... yes...
binned, judging by the silence.
No, not binned. Just waiting to see what the response is. If I had jumped in there and given an immediate response we would not know how strong the un-solicited feeling was for a DMU. As it stands, of the several thousand views of the TC3 related threads there have been 2 requests for DMUs and one post about how unfair it is that no-one's made any. It's hardly an overwhelming clamour is it.

"Unless Mike, you're saying "make it and get it to us by x date and then we might think about it".
Make it to the required standard, with custom cab, full interior, nightmode, changeable liveries/weathering, custom sounds, AWS, ACS couplers, and with no third party contributions, all in the required timescale and with a resonable poly count and texture usage and we'll think about it. Of course you'll also need to be prepared to change it several times to make use of new features if required.
Judging by the way the group works, contributations and offers are not really that......... well thought of, are they?
If somebody makes something that is of the required standard and meets all the criteria for something the group is working on then we will take contributions and offers.

We do work with people outside of the core team, we do, and have, use content by other people. We have also asked some people to contribute content and they've turned us down.... it is a two-way street, sometimes our solicitation isn't..... 'well thought of' to use your words.
If anyone feels they have something they would like to contribute towards the release then I am more than happy to talk to them if they'd like to mail me. I would say though, that I feel we have a reputation as a team for the quality of our work, and that won't be compromised. (apologies if anyone thinks that sounds arrogant)
Mike.

[Mike10]

Mike will; it be before the Kuji release:)
Send me another $64,000 and I'll tell you as well. ;)

Mike.

[overmars]

I can send you 64 pence :)

[Pencil42]

The steam and passenger enhancements sound intriguing. As someone who uses an alternate passenger set regularly, it's nice to hear they will be compatible with the standard passengers!

[johnchisem]

Mike, I know that a hard core of about six of us would love a whole fleet of DMUs! They were a fact of life in our golden days. Now if they will second me the ball might start rolling.

John

[Mike10]

Mike, I know that a hard core of about six of us would love a whole fleet of DMUs! They were a fact of life in our golden days. Now if they will second me the ball might start rolling.

John
The desire for DMUs is in our conciousness, so the ball has started rolling. How far it will roll is another matter entirely.

Mike.

[Vern]

The DMU I would like to see (which AFAIK has never been done for MSTS let alone Trainz) is the Swindon Class 120 Cross Country. Not sure if these ventured on the S&C but they were in their time a very versatile unit. ISTR they combined the legendary AEC "whine" with a rather hellfire exhaust stack crackle.

So please add me to the DMU "wish-list."

[Paulsw2]

Well, I think I am known for my support of 1st generation DMUs almost as much as my obsession with Mk1 coaches.....so, yes, I'd love to see a new DMU for TC3!

However, what were the units that worked local trains in the 60s on the S&C I wonder?

[bmg55uk]

Like many others, I was very pleased to hear that the Settle to Carlisle route was to be the subject of Trainz Classics 3. Having started with UTC, and purchased the 2004 and 2006 versions as soon as they became available, I firmly believe that Auran should have been organising such packs from the very beginning of Trainz, thus creating a larger pool of British locos and especially rolling stock. Individual content creators have a very difficult job, and it is to their credit that they continue to produce such amazing products. The stumbling block is that even working flat-out, they produce only a few items per year, by which time a new version of Trainz has been produced, or a service pack is awaited, and further delays are inevitable. So it is good news indeed that this large pack has been announced.

However, I was initially disappointed that the release date was at least 3 to 6 months away, until I realised that the announcement was primarily to invite comments and suggestions which might then be incorporated into the programme within that six months.

I am more than happy with the locos initially suggested, and I am assuming that running numbers can be customised, etc. Coaches [or lack of suitable ones] have always posed a problem for me – perhaps also a uniform standard for livery, outline etc can be agreed for TC3. My wishlist would be further Mark 1 coaches as per the Railwaves ‘open’ stock, perhaps covering many of the other versions of Mark 1s. However, pre-nationalisation designs such as the LMS ‘porthole’ stock would be useful, which might complement LMSMan’s coaches from an earlier period which he has recently mentioned he might develop further. Thompson stock could be another option, and would go well with the Gresley coaches recently produced. Suitable suburban stock too is conspicuous by its absence as well. Any coaches produced for TC3 could initially be in only lined maroon livery to cut down on the work involved, with other livery versions perhaps being offered as stock packs at later dates.

Mike has mentioned the ‘lack of interest’ in DMUs. I, for one, would certainly like a good variety of ‘heritage’ DMUs, the Metro Cammell class 101 units being almost ubiquitous, but any other type[s] would be most welcome. I am sure many people, like myself, are rather reluctant to write in to ask for their favourite types of rolling stock unless invited to do so, for when someone does write in, it seems the person is inevitably berated by one or two individuals for apparently daring to criticise content creators for failing to deliver said favourite item and telling the person to take up G-Max and construct the item himself/herself! This may be part of the ‘lack of interest’ and I would hope that other people are now willing to make the effort to air their preferences. However, back on topic, perhaps DMUs if produced might have customisable destinations and headcodes [which could be altered in-game, perhaps at a terminus], and selectable numbering, including regional prefixes.

Once the comments and suggestions have been digested by the team, what do they have in mind as to how information on progress should be made? On one hand, we know that the project will be simmering in the background, and so a big announcement about a month before release date might be ideal, to avoid the speculation and silliness that has been prevalent until recently on the KRS Forum. On the other hand, everyone is eager for up-to-date news, so perhaps an announcement on a certain date each month could be made to avoid frustration. It will be interesting to see how they will deal with this dilemma.

I hope these are taken as constructive suggestions. I know all the types of coaches I mentioned could not possibly be included in TC3, but the more people who write in with their preferences, the more chance there is of the team taking their preferences seriously.

Bruce.

[Mike10]

However, what were the units that worked local trains in the 60s on the S&C I wonder?
I am reliably informed, that local services were steam hauled until after 1967.

Somewhat after the time period we had in mind.

Mike.

[Mike10]

Once the comments and suggestions have been digested by the team, what do they have in mind as to how information on progress should be made? On one hand, we know that the project will be simmering in the background, and so a big announcement about a month before release date might be ideal, to avoid the speculation and silliness that has been prevalent until recently on the KRS Forum. On the other hand, everyone is eager for up-to-date news, so perhaps an announcement on a certain date each month could be made to avoid frustration. It will be interesting to see how they will deal with this dilemma.
Keep an eye on http://www.trainzclassics.co.uk We will be keeping it updated regularly and it will be our means of showing everyone the progress.

I hope these are taken as constructive suggestions. I know all the types of coaches I mentioned could not possibly be included in TC3, but the more people who write in with their preferences, the more chance there is of the team taking their preferences seriously.

Bruce.
All taken as constructive Bruce, don't worry.

We are happy to hear people's preferences and ideas, it has to be kept in mind however that we are limited in our time budget for this and anything not already started that is of a complex nature could be beyond the scope of the project at the moment. Our ethos is definitely 'Quality not Quantity'.

Mike.

[Wessex_Electric_Nutter]

Mike, I believe I owe you an appology for my previous post, I tried to order it in a correct response, but sometimes, when you don't answer something, I try to add sarcasam and humor, as well as trying to put a serious point across.


Make it to the required standard, with custom cab, full interior, nightmode, changeable liveries/weathering, custom sounds, AWS, ACS couplers, and with no third party contributions, all in the required timescale and with a resonable poly count and texture usage and we'll think about it. Of course you'll also need to be prepared to change it several times to make use of new features if required.

If somebody makes something that is of the required standard and meets all the criteria for something the group is working on then we will take contributions and offers.


That can be done, if I knew the required timescale. I would like an object to appear in TRS, of mine and I would love some details by a lot of things. Decent polycount (look at my 141, 20k polys, add that to a shed, shouldn't drop your frames.
LOD - I know about
AWS - no details about, fiddling with the 06 one atm
Cab - already have several
Third party contributions - already bringing on a lot in house.

What I would like to do, if its going to be released as part of R.C.U, I'd like to use standard scripts wherever possible, so I can conform to an agreed standard and not trying to get out of scriping, I've been wanted to look and try it, but when you have soo many people demanding this, that and the other, they don't think "you haven't tried scripting yet". It looks suspciously easy, now that I have tried BASIC programming. (where have I said that before?)

We do work with people outside of the core team, we do, and have, use content by other people. We have also asked some people to contribute content and they've turned us down.... it is a two-way street, sometimes our solicitation isn't..... 'well thought of' to use your words.
If anyone feels they have something they would like to contribute towards the release then I am more than happy to talk to them if they'd like to mail me. I would say though....

PM me with some model details. I'm interested in being an outsourcer, but not working within the team. (If you understand what I mean). I am under an Auran NDA, so thats a huge advantage, I am tallented in 3D modelling, as you should know. But the fact is, no one utilises me for group work. Ok, I am with UK Branch Lines, but they don't really have deadlines.

....that I feel we have a reputation as a team for the quality of our work, and that won't be compromised. (apologies if anyone thinks that sounds arrogant)


Some of us are exactly the same, thats why I thought, sometiems, its better if we work on our own, as the quality of a product, can be seriously compromised. I was asking another question, which I won't repeat here for obvious reasons.
It also strikes me that most people take the easy way out with models, passing off a Mk3 reskin as a Wessex or a 153, but hang on, aren't most people only interested in modelling accruately than quickly?

[johnwhelan]

It also strikes me that most people take the easy way out with models, passing off a Mk3 reskin as a Wessex or a 153, but hang on, aren't most people only interested in modelling accruately than quickly?

Just a comment.

There is a market both for accurate models and approximate reskins. An approximate reskin is much faster to do than an accurate model. Also the more accurate the model usually the higher the poly count so there are trade offs.

Cheerio John

[Vern]

Well, I think I am known for my support of 1st generation DMUs almost as much as my obsession with Mk1 coaches.....so, yes, I'd love to see a new DMU for TC3!

However, what were the units that worked local trains in the 60s on the S&C I wonder?

Especially the original B1 bogie/wooden panel/large seat/tungsten light/steam heat TSO's.

Sorry, slightly OT drool--woffle.

:udrool:

[Paulsw2]

I am reliably informed, that local services were steam hauled until after 1967.

Somewhat after the time period we had in mind.

Mike.
Hmm, does this point towards a need for some non-corridor local/suburban coaching stock for steam haulage? Coincidentally, I recall that WEN brought out a couple of examples of such stock last year. Perhaps these could be developed further?

[Wessex_Electric_Nutter]

Hmm, does this point towards a need for some non-corridor local/suburban coaching stock for steam haulage? Coincidentally, I recall that WEN brought out a couple of examples of such stock last year. Perhaps these could be developed further?

Yes, but never made the TC, I really need to remake the coaches, as the polycount is unaccepable. The reason for this, is because I built the coach out of sections (so the body has a higher polycount) rather than intergrated. The windows don't help either, but having alpha windows is much more of a problem, due to issues with Trainz.

EDIT: I saw the note about the period, this is true to an extent, like a lot of places in the UK, steam hauled, until 1967, but a lot of places also had diesel traction and steam traction working side by side. DMU failures were very common for the few years of their life, because of the bedding in of the traction equipment and the crew training needed. And as for some features....? Well, some were a constant source of trouble. Air driven ones being a typical example, as each vehicle produced their own air supply and there was no common train supply of air.

[Russell_Benton]

Mike, I know that a hard core of about six of us would love a whole fleet of DMUs!

Seven! DMUs got to be the most neglected part of BR History whether in model or simulator form. While , like another contributor, I'd love a Swindon 120 (actually a Swindon Ayrshire 126 would be better!)these did not run on S&C. What is needed are Class 101 and Class 108s.

Don't forget that if meant to represent 60s that blue diesels would have got a look in too, including Class 50s!

The North West 1966-1968 was a fascinating place with blue diesels /blue grey coaches mixing with maroon coaches and green diesels along with the last steam engines. Britannias, 9Fs, Black 5s, Standard 5, Standard 4, 4MT,2MT

Assuming TC3 can run alongside TRS2004 I'm a probable purchaser- but that DMU might just swing it!

Russell

[Paulsw2]

Of course, we already have a class 101, but I wonder if there's any chance of 'improving it', ie. custom cab and interior, custom engine sound, reskin, other bells and whistles?

[Wessex_Electric_Nutter]

Seven! DMUs got to be the most neglected part of BR History whether in model or simulator form. While , like another contributor, I'd love a Swindon 120 (actually a Swindon Ayrshire 126 would be better!)these did not run on S&C. What is needed are Class 101 and Class 108s.

What Classes do people want to see out of the ones that operated on the S&C line and when did these units start working on the lines? I know they were built earlier than the Class 37s, by 3 years, but as for when they operated....!

I am not suggesting I'll make one on behalf of the group, but what could happen if it doesn't make the final cut, is for the unit to be a third party add-on, along with a session. (although, due to a lack of research, I wish to avoid this as much as possible.)

[johnchisem]

WEN! Of all the lines that I can think off in the North of England the Settle and Carlisle in the period we are on about probably had the least amount of DMU traffic. When I was at school our school bought the old school building at Helwith Bridge to use as an outdoor pursuit centre. Despite no health and safety:p regulations back then, most of us survived and indeed kept our limbs.

I am talking 1970s now, and can remember hearing endless freights with class 40s or 25s, the odd Brush 4 (47) or peak (45/6) on passenger. Now and again we were very pleased to see class 50s on diverted WCML trains (usually double headed)-diverted because of electrification on the main line). As for DMUs, not a single occasion springs to mind, although I am sure that the odd one must have made it.

John

[dh2k3]

I wonder how this version will compare to the one for MSTS.

Dave

[Wessex_Electric_Nutter]

WEN! Of all the lines that I can think off in the North of England the Settle and Carlisle in the period we are on about probably had the least amount of DMU traffic....
.....
As for DMUs, not a single occasion springs to mind, although I am sure that the odd one must have made it.

You may be right, DMU's must of been very rare to go across that line, but they became more common in the 1980s.

I had a look at some classes of what might be allocated nearby, now it would be a 101/4/8, as all 3 types were either based at Carlisle depot, Leeds depot, or both.
http://www.railcar.co.uk/his100-109/101ops.htm
http://www.railcar.co.uk/his100-109/104ops.htm
http://www.railcar.co.uk/his100-109/108ops.htm

The earliest photo I could find of one transversing the line, is linked below, around 1982, so we are both not completely wrong, we just got different periods in our minds.
http://peter-cooper.fotopic.net/p29153414.html

[paulhobbs]

The period we had in mind was more 1962 because of the A3s in use on the line.

Paul

[Wessex_Electric_Nutter]

The period we had in mind was more 1962 because of the A3s in use on the line.

Paul

But if I am right in saying, the Class 37s you are using, have yellow warning patches, right? These didn't appear until Mid 1963 early 64.

[johnchisem]

WEN , we are both correct but the one that you linked to is on a Leeds to Morecambe service which leaves the line at Settle Junction, at the point where the Settle Carlisle actually starts! If you look between the train and the signal box you can see the junction signal. Settle Junction is still in a fairly old (but very well maintained) state. And I can't find a single shot of the signalbox.:confused:

This is the Morecambe line just past the junction, (on the left). Carlisle straight ahead.

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/5753/carlisetripon8f19070002nb7.jpg


and here is a house, which is for sale, that Craig wants his Mum and I to buy, I wonder why? (Think Mike Banfields' railway and you might get a clue!) Morecambe line (to Carnforth) at the lower level.

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/9103/carlisetripon8f19070009pq4.jpg

if I win a million pounds you WILL be invited to the housewarming!

John
John

[AndrewH]

........

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/9103/carlisetripon8f19070009pq4.jpg

if I win a million pounds you WILL be invited to the housewarming!

A million quid? I presume that includes all the Ribble Valley water meadows visible in the photo. :)

[BidMod]

A million quid? I presume that includes all the Ribble Valley water meadows visible in the photo. :)

In that location? Probably not... but I'd expect it to be slightly less expensive than £1m. Not much less though. The rest is probably beer allowance ;)

[big_b]

I'm sure Auran's answer to compete with Kuju and MSTS2 will come soon:p :cool:

Tom

Hows this all Aussie route

TC4 Crossing The Nullarbor

Will run on any PC Low Poly Route high frame rates hours of fun

1 train
1 track
1 texture
1 backdrop

Dave

[johnchisem]

WEN I have now found a shot of the box, it looks very similar even nowadays. I wonder if it is a listed building!

http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/6594/settlecarlisle0161ay9.jpg

John

[Russell_Benton]

By coincidence, the October issue of Model Rail has an article on the types of train seen on the Settle & Carlisle. Haven't read it yet but thought it might be of use

Russell

[EdgarCraggs]

Look forward to this – used to spot in the Garsdale area in the 70’s (mostly on WCML diversion days), by which time the line was in serious decline and local services had all (but) stopped.

There were a number of private sidings along the line that produced a variety of produce and in the 60's stopping goods services were provided to the local stations. Would really like to see scenarios with stopping freight as well as through and naturally local/express passenger services.


Modern PCs should be able to run a fair number of trains consecutively and with 90 odd miles of track, there’s hopefully space to utilise passing loops and the like properly.

[toby2]

Hello everybody, I think this is my first post so my greeting is genuine! :D

Personally I'm really excited about TC3. I'm still in my teens (albeit late teens) so just youngin' but when I saw that the whole game was the SnC I could hardly contain my joy! With a terribly english grandmother I've always considered myself a bit of a 'son of the empire' and ever since I saw my grandfathers "Smoke and Steam on the Settle and Carlisle" video I've been in love with the route, albeit from afar.

I got Trainz SP3 first, then quickly to UTC, then on to TRS2004 fairly quickly upon its realease and then I skipped 06 as I played a mates copy. I'm rather a picky little bugger and I only like the (what I consider to be) high quality stuff, and, although this is in no way meant to be a slight against the many awesome content creators out there, I didn't really like much of the 3rd party content bundled with 04 or 06, much of which (being British-empire to the bone) I didn't look at twice. I.e. most European, American and even my native Australian stuff didn't stand a chance.

I think the TC system is absolulty brilliant as has been pointed out no one HAS to buy, and for those who want to it's a 'lite' version of trains containing (for me) all the perfect stuff. From what I've seen of the screenshots the route, stock and locomotives look absolultey gorgeous and everybody on the team deserves a very big well done. I eagerly anticipate it's release, and based on Hawes Junction the Jinty and the 04, I know I won't be disapointed! :p

[Driver_Col]

Hi toby2 - Welcome to Trainz Forum and glad that you are (with me) very excited about TC3. When I was a "youngin", I spent all my waking hours alongside the East Coast main line (London - Edinburgh) and so while TC3 has concentrated on the opposite coast (?) ....... it is really exciting to see how Auran have improved the trains experience. To be totally honest, as long as I can "smell" the smoke, steam, hot metal, and diesel fumes, I can forgive Auran for not hitting on my railway territory. A rebuilt Royal Scot thundering up an incline is just as impressive to me as an A3, and a "Peak" Type 4 diesel is just as awesome under power as an English Electric Type 4. I had better finish before I get totally carried away!
:udrool:
Colin.

[Euphod]

You TC enthusiasts that have your hopes up for the Settle and Whatever route, to you I pose a question: Have you purchased TC 1 & 2?

Just curious.

Ed

[Driver_Col]

You TC enthusiasts that have your hopes up for the Settle and Whatever route, to you I pose a question: Have you purchased TC 1 & 2?

Just curious.

Ed

Nope....... still in TRS2004 world! TRS2006 was a disappointment, and on that basis I was not prepared to gamble on TC1. TC2 aroused my interest but not my wallet! Based on my belief that Auran would really like the TC series to work, I am going to assume that a lot of initial TC problems have now been fixed and that TC3 will be quite wonderful.

Regards. Colin.

[Euphod]

For your sake....I hope so too.

The Harlem line was ......... a disappointment. I have documented my reasons for labeling it so in other forums here. The UK route is not being made "in house" (so I believe), and those chaps may do a better job.

For your sake....I hope so.

Ed

[Driver_Col]

For your sake....I hope so too.

The Harlem line was ......... a disappointment. I have documented my reasons for labeling it so in other forums here. The UK route is not being made "in house" (so I believe), and those chaps may do a better job.

For your sake....I hope so.

Ed

With the greatest respect, you seem to be taking this too seriously. The worst case scenario (I always play worse case scenarios) .... is that I revert to TRS2004. I absolutely love TRS2004 so would have no regrets. I am just hoping that TC3 is a little better!

Keep smiling ............. 'cos I certainly will.:)

Regards. Colin.

[johnwhelan]

You TC enthusiasts that have your hopes up for the Settle and Whatever route, to you I pose a question: Have you purchased TC 1 & 2?

Just curious.

Ed

Yes, it seems to have fewer undocumented system featuers and it runs my UK stock a little smoother. I just ignored the built-in layouts that came with it.

Cheerio John

[ex-railwayman]

[quote=toby2;196637]Hello everybody, I think this is my first post so my greeting is genuine! :D


Genuine greetings to you too Toby2, and welcome to our li'l forum. What happened to Toby1 one may well ask?? :hehe: Anyway, most Brits I am sure in thinking, are also looking forward to TC3, and as Ed (sorry, Euphod ) has already pointed out, that this layout has been "sub-contracted" out for creation, so to speak, so, as some of us already know of them, we are in fairly safe hands with these lovely people to generate a truly wonderful route. I hope that ex-pats and lovers of British Railways in general, wherever they are in this world, enjoy the sights and sounds of a nostalgic era upon a truly memorable railway route, the SETTLE & CARLISLE line, I am sure the good people of Carlisle will forgive Euphod of his uncertainty of there existence.

Cheerz. ex-railwayman.

[Euphod]

With the greatest respect, you seem to be taking this too seriously. Colin.

Not at all Colin, I'm quite happy with 2006 as it is. 2004 is nice too, but doesn't run well on MY machine, or at least it didn't run well on my old machine.....I could reinstall it I guess, but then the four service packs and all, besides, I like the headlights on during the day.

TC has touted some nice features that I haven't had much luck with. The Harlem Line was badly made, and the skies race along like the "Wizard of Oz".

My apologies to the good people of "Carlisle", and of the UK in general. Another comment by a brutish American lacking sleep who should have kept his mouth shut, and his fingers slack, and laid on his pillow instead of pushing the power button.

Ed

[BidMod]

the good people of Carlisle will forgive Euphod of his uncertainty of there existence.

Euphod is allowed to not know we genuinely exist, because he lives a significant distance away (and makes me laugh sometimes). People in Yorkshire (where I live now) have no excuse! For some reason, they think it's either in Wales (:eek:), Scotland (:eek:, but it's a bit nearer I suppose), or get it mixed up with Hereford (:eek: actually that's only happened twice, but I don't really know how, and it's nearly in the Welsh boat). Sometimes they know where I come from, and the rest just haven't heard of the Great Border City at all.

That said, the Carlisle that comes with MSTS does take a little squinting (and you mustn't look at the trackwork - it's quite shocking), so it could well have been a joke route there. I trust the Rail-Sim team to do better, but I would like to see the AI traversing the diamonds and single-slips without getting confused - I've never managed to get it to work whenever I've tried, so I gave up. Maybe it could be done with one of the rules on the DLS, but I haven't the patience to set it up.

BidMod the Cumbrian ;)

[toby2]

To Euphod...
No I havn't purchased either. As I said my hopes that it will be great are based on the 3F Jinty, Hawes Junction route and all its stock etc. I was very impressed (though not enough to buy TRS2006 as I found it too clunky with so much 'other stuff'.) But this way with TC3 I'm thinking it will be like the Hawes Junction route with tons of new goodies and minus all that 'other stuff'. Anyway I've been dissapointed before so I'm happy to take my chances. Rail-sim is great.

Rule Britannia!

[paulhobbs]

Rule Britannia!
That will be in there as well if I finish it...

Paul

[Filip_P]

Sorry if I ask again on this forum, but when I bought a TC now (honestly I got it as a Christmas gift), can I download Settle-Carlisle line for free? When it can be possible?

[Mike10]

The Settle-Carlisle route will be included in the next TC release. So you will need to buy that version if you want it.

Mike.