how to make real maps?

[boy_hennah1989]

hi iv seen screenies where people have put a 'real' map on their bases to use when laying their track, how do i do this? im running TRS2004

[geophil]

There are a couple of ways to this. You will need topographic maps, track plans or aerial images like Google Earth and Digital Elevation Data (DEM), the latter to shape your terrain.

It also involves external tools. Freeware tools are HOG, in conjunction with MicroDEM, and MapMaker. Base Maps are template objects which serve as map or aerial image texture carriers. And there is TransDEM which is payware.

geophil

[stagecoach]

Ive found the easiest to do is basemap. download them from the DLS and find them in your downloads folder and move them to your custom folder for easy location when adding images. Go to www.streetmap.co.uk (http://www.streetmap.co.uk) for uk maps and zoom to the 1000m size of the area you want. The centre square can be saved and then convert to a JPG file, now save as the image file in the basemap folder replacing the image already in it but dont change the name. do this for each saved image. open surveyor select basemap, you may need to add extra baseboards, as the map is 1000m not 720m of the base boards, but these can be deleted later same as the basemaps. Like a puzzle place them side by side to recreate the map, you can now place track, roads, rivers etc. Unlike Dem Basemaps do not create contours etc but is a basic way to find the layout of the route.

[misterchugg]

hi mate

i found this: http://www.street-directory.com.au (http://www.street-directory.com.au/)
i am looking for the data for the wacol station are going towards ipswich.
it seems to go from 2klm. and the next map is 300 meters.

could you take a look and tell me how to get that working please

thanks
ron

[misterchugg]

hi

i found the area i am after, but
how do i get to know what the sliders on the left are set at
http://www.my247.com.au/brisbane/suburbs/Wacol.238
would you know at all?

thanks
ron

[Ghostryder]

misterchugg

is it just wacol that has your interest or other parts around there?

Cheers

Ghosty

[misterchugg]

hi ghosty

to begin with wacol station area and the spur going into carole park, then all the way to booval and the powerhouse.

thanks
ron

[Ghostryder]

Misterchugg

what era has your fancy for the section?

Cheers

Ghosty

[misterchugg]

hi
i'm thinking about 60's and 70's when the heavy industries were still going there

thanks
ron

[boy_hennah1989]

Ive found the easiest to do is basemap. download them from the DLS and find them in your downloads folder and move them to your custom folder for easy location when adding images. Go to www.streetmap.co.uk (http://www.streetmap.co.uk) for uk maps and zoom to the 1000m size of the area you want. The centre square can be saved and then convert to a JPG file, now save as the image file in the basemap folder replacing the image already in it but dont change the name. do this for each saved image. open surveyor select basemap, you may need to add extra baseboards, as the map is 1000m not 720m of the base boards, but these can be deleted later same as the basemaps. Like a puzzle place them side by side to recreate the map, you can now place track, roads, rivers etc. Unlike Dem Basemaps do not create contours etc but is a basic way to find the layout of the route.


cheers, a few questions.

their are only 9 basemap on DLS does this mean i can only have 9 sections of the slected map? (i know its a noob question, but last time i changed something i have downloaded and tried to copy it so i can have the original and the edited version, have faild)
im planning on making the ECML so start kings cross to Peterborough (then maybe hull), i think one has been made before but im planning on trying out a new way to make maps, but using very little 3D objects other than track buildings and clso to track buildings etc and the most of the secenary being indvidual backdrops (to focus on proformance of the route and not the back ground, this would also help to make the back ground look more detaild as you are not worrying about the polly count)
has anyone got an ECML basemap i can use? as the contours are important :D

[misterchugg]

hi all

a few questions.

i am looking to do the area around wacol railway station near brisbane here in australia and also the now disused spurline into the carole park industrial areas.

link here: http://www.my247.com.au/brisbane/suburbs/Wacol.238

now can somebody tell me what size i need to make it to bring it into trainz basemaps.
i can only zoom to the second highest plus sign.
will that be enough?

thanks
ron

[geophil]

@boy_hennah1989:

You can copy basemaps as often as you like. Just make sure to assign them individual KUIDs.


@misterchugg:

Basemaps are fine as long as you have a map source in a suitable projection which produces a Cartesian system (map projections are mathematical solutions for the well known "flat Earth" problem). Topographic maps meet that requirement. 1:50000 often show a 1000m coordinate grid, directly applicable for basemap tailoring. That's what the basemap tutorial is talking about.

Your map link is Google Maps. That's a different story. The projection for Google Maps is a standard Mercator. This means scale in x and y direction is different and variable even at the same zoom level. Not the best of preconditions. Furthermore, the default user interface doesn't bother you with any coordinates at all which you would have wanted for transformation.

For Queensland there is a WMS server (which I haven't used) with topographic maps and full coordinates but you will need a client software to access it.

geophil

[misterchugg]

hi geophil

so the maplink is not good to save and use?

i was looking at the hybrid but i have no idea how its done.
i downloaded the basemap pack but thats as far as i know

cheers
ron

[geophil]

The Brisbane area seems to be covered by Google Earth in med-hi resolution (50cm or 60cm imagery) which should be more than sufficient. However, I would not use "Hybrid" in Google Maps, due to the Mercator distortion, but Google Earth proper instead. You can measure distances in Google Earth and approximate a 1000 m tile this way.

Here is a screenshot of the more automated way with TransDEM: SRTM DEM, 1:250000 Australian map (via WMS) and Google Earth:
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/416/wacolkj9.th.jpg (http://img181.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wacolkj9.jpg)

geophil

[misterchugg]

hi mate
i used to be able to get onto google earth proper but i cant since i had to do a reformat on the hd. i have another forum question up about that alrerady and craig has been trying to help me.

i even asled them at google earth

they cant figure our why it wont work either.

it just cannot log in initially for some weird reason.

i've reinstalled and uninstalled several times and even done the registry with a cleaner

thanks
ron

[boy_hennah1989]

thank you geophil, thats a lot of help.
now i need to decide how im going to make the route, any idea guys?

A) make the full ECML route kings cross to Peterborough
or
B) still make every station on the route, but only have 1 or 2 bases between each station, so that its not so long

what do you guys think?


and how can i make my own backdrops without havine Gmax or anything like that?

[johnchisem]

A little research would reveal that a competent group of people are currently building the ECML for Trainz. It's a big project, but if you consider that you could do it on your own why don't you contact them and offer your services.:)

John

[dave_jarrett]

I decided to model the Bluebell railway as it is close to me. Because the Dem data was not of brilliant quality, I hand contoured the entire route, then used TranzDEM to convert it into propoer DEM. I used Google Earth and Planning Portal images in the areas where buildings existed. Having got my terrain sorted, i laid a single line track from beginning to end and went out for a drive. For me being able to run in effective real time was the objective, and I am in no hurry to finish my layout. Its taken me 2 months to almost complete my first loco to run on my line!!!! From my expereince time is the critical issue, full scale means loads of work! Will be intrested to see pics of your backdrop method for scenery building. I know there is a tutorial on how to do this somewhere, but i cannot for the life of me find it at the moment. If I do i will give you a shout.

[boy_hennah1989]

A little research would reveal that a competent group of people are currently building the ECML for Trainz. It's a big project, but if you consider that you could do it on your own why don't you contact them and offer your services.:)

John

that makes me sound big headed, what im planning is to make a route that is proformence 100% with 90% of the secenary being pictures/drawings on a backdrop, cutting down on the polly count alot, so other that stations loco sheds signals and rail buildings in general, everything will be backdrops, that why i asked whats the best way to make back drops as i intend to make loads of them. and i didnt say it would be a quick weeks worth of work, i know it will take me a long time, im not planning on making the full ECML right not im going to keep my work for now on kings cross to peterborough, and the GNER route only so i wont be worrying about the cambridge line, and i might not even bother with the hertford loop unless i realy want the depot... my machine is used for work, plassure and trainz, so when im using a route with busy secanery its lags like a B#£%h so the lower i can get the polly count the better.

[boy_hennah1989]

I decided to model the Bluebell railway as it is close to me. Because the Dem data was not of brilliant quality, I hand contoured the entire route, then used TranzDEM to convert it into propoer DEM. I used Google Earth and Planning Portal images in the areas where buildings existed. Having got my terrain sorted, i laid a single line track from beginning to end and went out for a drive. For me being able to run in effective real time was the objective, and I am in no hurry to finish my layout. Its taken me 2 months to almost complete my first loco to run on my line!!!! From my expereince time is the critical issue, full scale means loads of work! Will be intrested to see pics of your backdrop method for scenery building. I know there is a tutorial on how to do this somewhere, but i cannot for the life of me find it at the moment. If I do i will give you a shout.

im planning on using google earth to see where the buildings are and with a bit or artistic licence and guessing and using google images ill prob use a mix of pictures of different buildings (from around the world maybe, just to give me more of a range) as long as the proformace is ok, and you can see from the back drop 'oh im entering a town now' or a city village etc etc i dont think that apart from the important buildings around the stations that running a class 91 or HST as + 100mph you will be able to admire the secenary

[boy_hennah1989]

ok im almost ready to go,

learn how to put maps onto baseboards, check
find detailed track layout of kings cross, check
learn how to make backdrops, check (well i hope in a few days)
learn how to get the landscape looking at least half right, erm?? any ideas?

[geophil]

4. learn how to get the landscape looking at least half right, erm?? any ideas?

DEMs would help to shape the terrain. And here's a "minimal art" example how to paint the terrain: http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=15197. This is the "real thing", not backdrops.

geophil

[boy_hennah1989]

DEMs would help to shape the terrain. And here's a "minimal art" example how to paint the terrain: http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=15197. This is the "real thing", not backdrops.

geophil

ok a few questions about trainsDEM, how easy is it to use? as im not very good with technical stuff unless a step by step idiot how to do it is in front of me. and is this the right site to get it off?

http://www.rolandziegler.de/StreckeUndLandschaft/startseiteEngl.htm

and what maps do i need to get it working and where do i get the maps (i.e. best website?)

and do i need to pay for this? sorry if i sound tight :hehe:

[laika]

Hi,

The Transdem program made by geophil is great. It is payware but woth the money. If u read the manual and do the tutorials you will learn how to use this program. i use it also for making my maps now. In combination of the google earth pictures you can really make a good route. The great advantage with thiese google eath pictures or maps is that they are just on the right place in the map.
http://members.home.nl/laika99/Montparnasse/Montparnasse07.gif

Some tips.
Well when this is your first route dont make a to big route. When you plan a big sation with alot of junctions(a route though a city) keep care of the tracks you use and catenary and junctions.

I build alot of city routes and form my experience i can tell you that the track, catenary and SP2 platforms use the most of the recources. Also when you are planning animated junctions keep in mind that these are also use alot of recources.
In that case use always low poly tracks like the MP tacks.
Its not the scenery that use alot of recourses but more the splines like roads and tracks and catenary. Also signals use alot of recources.

Greetings Laika:wave:

[boy_hennah1989]

Hi,




can i pay by card?? lol
i cant pay any other way im not to sure how lol

[laika]

Hi,

Hmm i think the best you can do is send an email. normally payment goes with paypal
Look also on this thread for alot more information about transdem
http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=2085

greetz Laika:wave:

[boy_hennah1989]

Hi,

Hmm i think the best you can do is send an email. normally payment goes with paypal
Look also on this thread for alot more information about transdem
http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=2085

greetz Laika:wave:

so how can i keep my polly count down?? i dont use the animated junction, i want my detail to go into the track work so over head wires and and signals are quite important, iv run my trains in a map where i had no buildings, just track, junctions, signals and over head wire and it ran fine, so i just thought it was the buildings, ill see how i get on doing it this way 1st, ill have to wait for my pocket money to come to buy that... every penny counts lol