Facelift? [Archive] - Trainz Discussion Forums

omber

July 4th, 2007, 09:37 PM

August 6th 2007, 4:04 AM

In case anyone wondered what is going on - I accidentally deleted the entire route - good job me :) But thats ok I already redid the work I've done so Im quite happy - Im just trying to workout some silly turnouts (arrow points left but the track is set right etc.). Also I rebuilt the queen street station again :). Here are the pictures, but first something nicer:

First Glasgow to Falkirk poster:

http://www.artbylukasz.com/trainz/glasgow_to_falkrik/6aug07update/poster01small.jpg

(http://www.artbylukasz.com/trainz/glasgow_to_falkrik/6aug07update/poster01.jpg 1200x800)

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Two pictures of the new Queen Street station - I tried to make this look a little more as the one that is currently there:

http://www.artbylukasz.com/trainz/glasgow_to_falkrik/6aug07update/queen_street01small.jpg

http://www.artbylukasz.com/trainz/glasgow_to_falkrik/6aug07update/queen_street01.jpg

http://www.artbylukasz.com/trainz/glasgow_to_falkrik/6aug07update/queen_street02small.jpg

http://www.artbylukasz.com/trainz/glasgow_to_falkrik/6aug07update/queen_street02.jpg

For those looking forward to this - please be easy on me - I play World of Warcraft, work with Trainz and have a real job so its a little of a pain to spend some decent time working on this but I'm on it! I'm hoping to have a working beta by the end of September for the interested. Until then - more pictures and some videos soon - Class 390 set cab view arrival at Glasgow North has been recorded, so I'll try to upload that soonish :).

Omber

================================================== ===========================================

July 25th 2007, Recieved following reply from Auran:

Hi Lukasz,

You do not need a green light from us, as we did not create the original layout. You will need to contact the original author, Vern, and obtain his written permission to upload any modified version of his layout.

Good Luck

================================================== ===========================================

I'll try to contact Vern in regards to this. If I can get Vern's written permisson to go on with this I'll start a new thread and post more updates very soon.

0099

July 4th, 2007, 10:34 PM

I Think You Can But You Have To Get The Permision From The Original Creator. Thats What Ive Heard Anyway.

trackplate

July 5th, 2007, 02:58 AM

Both common courtesy and convention would say “contact the original creator” I personally would also offer him the opportunity to at least review the route before upload
Two examples of routes I have modified and didn’t consider the changed enough from the original to consider new are Canada Impressions Line now Canada 1930 and Camel Fowey Newquay now Restormel Castle
Regards Bob V

omber

July 5th, 2007, 07:55 AM

This route came with Trainz though - I am unsure who the author is..

Lacker

July 5th, 2007, 08:19 AM

The Author was 'Vern' (Vern Moorhouse) Kuid:30024.
Can't see any activity from him lately,also no email address,so getting authority could be tricky.

Regards Bruce

omber

July 5th, 2007, 08:45 AM

Boo :( Oh well Ill just keep on working on it for myself...

Vern

July 16th, 2007, 09:38 PM

The route was commissioned from myself by Auran for TRS2004.

In truth, I'm not sure where the copyright lies - I certainly haven't got a problem with an updated, amended or improved version being made available but Auran may have other ideas!

omber

July 16th, 2007, 11:11 PM

Well I'll contact Auran in regards to this than .. thanks for the post Vern :) While Im at it Ill drop some screenshots here soon :)

drphlox

July 17th, 2007, 02:01 AM

hi Vern long time no see how life going? been trainzing much?

RE: Omber, would very much like to see some screenies of the updated route.

drphlox

omber

July 17th, 2007, 02:22 AM

I've only relaid all of the track at this point (must fix some kinks and inverted turnouts at this point), and placed some LMS semaphores on it (I assume LMS didn't run to Glasgow, for all my love for UK trains I don't know too much :P) ... once I get it all interactive and track marked the way I want it I will show so screen shots..

Vern, this is not a real-life representation of Glasgow but rather an impression right? Because I think I might have to open up the tunnel and make some major reconstructions because at this point the 9 car Class 390 set doesn't fit into the terminal (much less on other stations). Possibly 4 track line running out of Glasgow through the yards then merging into two line, I'm also considering electrification if I can find a nice centenary set...

lewisner

July 17th, 2007, 04:02 AM

Omber, I used to bash this line with the Class 27s in the early 80s and the Semaphores were ex North British Railway lattice post converted to Upper Quadrant so the LMS Semaphores are a pretty good match for them.If you want to use Colour Lights Bloodnoks signals are ideal, though the Auran built in Signals are perfectly acceptable.I"m sure you buy a VHS tape of an Edinburgh - Glasgow cab ride which I guess would be really useful to you being so far away!

drphlox

July 17th, 2007, 06:06 AM

I've only relaid all of the track at this point (must fix some kinks and inverted turnouts at this point), and placed some LMS semaphores on it (I assume LMS didn't run to Glasgow, for all my love for UK trains I don't know too much :P) ... once I get it all interactive and track marked the way I want it I will show so screen shots..

Snip

Omber the the LMS(Lazy, Muddleing and Slow :p(Speed record was 114mph compard to 126mph on LNER!) )did have trains running to Glasglow but whether or not it was to Queen Street Station (the one that your reworking) or another station I'm not sure of. in any case must find more info.

The LMS did operate the Glasglow - Mallig services jointly with LNER - again must confirm details.

drphlox

omber

July 17th, 2007, 09:23 AM

Kinda off topic but I dont understand how can LNER hold the speed record as they did it down a grade (1% or something wasnt it?), where as the french did almost the same thing on level ground..

Anyways,

Unfortunately I don't live in UK (I wish I did), so I don't know what the practice is so I need some information from you guys :P.. In UK, are signals always placed on both sides of the track for both directions - that is to say are signals mirrored on the right hand side just as they are on the left in case a train has to run on the "wrong" side due track malfunction etc?

ex-railwayman

July 17th, 2007, 10:10 AM

Hello omber, yes signals can be placed on both sides of the track if you wish, we "drive" on the left hand side over here generally, but as you stated, for wrong line working, due to a mishap or track work, we can cross over as an emergency procedure. What type of catanery are you looking for BTW, as I have several kinds installed on my PC from around Europe and the UK, they range from 1 line electrification thru to either 6 or 8 track width, depending on whether you want to do the yards as well as the main lines, let me know and I'll do some research for you.

Cheers ex-railwayman.

Vern

July 17th, 2007, 10:26 AM

Re Glasgow - Falkirk, it was a very rough representation of the prototype done to an incredibly tight timescale (something like about 4 weeks) so anything that could be done to improve on that could only make it better! The route was not built exactly to scale, but rather the convention of 1 x TRS surveyor 720sq tile being used to represent 1km sq off the map.

Still dabbling in train simming though interests have broadened considerably in the last couple of years (like playing GTA SA to death!). Have just fired up the MSTS RE after two and a half years to have a go at Manx Electric. If there was enough interest and it hasn't already been done I might think about following up with a TRS community/DLS version.

omber

July 17th, 2007, 10:49 AM

ex-railwayman - from 1 to 6 track would be nice..

kickflip

July 17th, 2007, 11:33 AM

The french broke the record with electric traction on a purpose built track with modified train sets!

The LNER did so with only a dynomometer car between the tender and the coaching stock (being fair Mallard was at her Peak!)

The LMS used Glasgow Central Station on the West Coast Main Line

HJ

ex-railwayman

July 17th, 2007, 11:33 AM

Hi omber, do you want the information today, or is tomorrow OK ? I am at least 5 hours time difference in front of you, depending on whereabouts you are in Canada ( East or West coast ), so will do a bit of digging around and send you an e-mail or personal message if that's OK.

Cheers. ex-railwayman.

omber

July 17th, 2007, 12:45 PM

Im on the West coast, no rush - I ran into a problem though..
"
I had a Class 37 pulling a long MK1 stock to the "new" Queen Street terminal but alas the train (AI controlled) ran right through red signal (I guess about 10 coaches is too much for breaking power of this train, specially on the hill just before the tunnel that goes to Queen Street .. at any rate the AI seemed to freeze - I couldnt do anything with that loco and train - it just sild down the tracks at agonizing speed...

I want to make a base session that will have DMU's (or EMUs if electrified) running quater-hours service from terminus to the portals past Falkrik and hourly with large trains that dont stop until the portals once they leave terminus..

omber

July 17th, 2007, 02:49 PM

Ookay here we go, Queen Street terminal in new glory (not yet finished). Sorry Glasgow, the old building reaaaaly had to go it was in my way :P

[/URL]http://www.artbylukasz.com/trainz/glasgow_to_falkrik/1_july17_07/glasgow1small.JPG

http://www.artbylukasz.com/trainz/glasgow_to_falkrik/1_july17_07/glasgow2small.JPG

http://www.artbylukasz.com/trainz/glasgow_to_falkrik/1_july17_07/glasgow3small.JPG

http://www.artbylukasz.com/trainz/glasgow_to_falkrik/1_july17_07/glasgow4small.JPG

http://www.artbylukasz.com/trainz/glasgow_to_falkrik/1_july17_07/glasgow5small.JPG

http://www.artbylukasz.com/trainz/glasgow_to_falkrik/1_july17_07/glasgow6small.JPG

http://www.artbylukasz.com/trainz/glasgow_to_falkrik/1_july17_07/glasgow7small.JPG

http://www.artbylukasz.com/trainz/glasgow_to_falkrik/1_july17_07/glasgow8small.JPG

Links to larger (1680x1050) version of the screenshots.

http://www.artbylukasz.com/trainz/glasgow_to_falkrik/1_july17_07/glasgow1.JPG (http://www.artbylukasz.com/trainz/glasgow_to_falkrik/1_july17_07/glasgow1.JPG)
[URL]http://www.artbylukasz.com/trainz/glasgow_to_falkrik/1_july17_07/glasgow2.JPG
http://www.artbylukasz.com/trainz/glasgow_to_falkrik/1_july17_07/glasgow3.JPG
http://www.artbylukasz.com/trainz/glasgow_to_falkrik/1_july17_07/glasgow4.JPG
http://www.artbylukasz.com/trainz/glasgow_to_falkrik/1_july17_07/glasgow5.JPG
http://www.artbylukasz.com/trainz/glasgow_to_falkrik/1_july17_07/glasgow6.JPG
http://www.artbylukasz.com/trainz/glasgow_to_falkrik/1_july17_07/glasgow7.JPG
http://www.artbylukasz.com/trainz/glasgow_to_falkrik/1_july17_07/glasgow8.JPG

ex-railwayman

July 17th, 2007, 03:05 PM

Hi omber, will have a look for some decent catanary for your specifications and send you a pm or e-mail when I have some news.
I'm at a loss as to your AI problem, but, I would have thought that 10 coaches was too long for the small-ish size stations on the layout anyway, especially little Glasgow Queen Street's platforms. I generally only used between 3 and 5 on my passenger trains, but this is my own personal thing. A Class 37 loco should still be able to pull this trailing weight, albeit carefully, up steep gradients anyhow.

FABULOUS SCREENIES BTW.

Is this a TRS2004 or 06 route please as well BTW.

Cheers. ex-railwayman.

Vern

July 17th, 2007, 06:38 PM

Nice work.

One thing to bear in mind, Glasgow Queen St HL and the route out towards Cowlairs and Falkirk is not electrified, only the low level platforms at Queen St which were outside the scope of this route.

omber

July 17th, 2007, 07:07 PM

The route would be TRS06 only because I dont own TRS04 and TC.

ex-railwayman - please let me know how it goes, even though the route is not electrified *now* what do you think it will look 15 years from now ? ;)

*spoiler*

Another modification is in progress but this one is a complete re-worked route with a quad mainline running out of Glasgow through Falkrik and beyond, and six branches leaving Glasgow, which has become a major terminal in its part of the country. The whole route WILL be electrified and reasambles the terminal in Frankfurt with a track running over the yard and connecting to them...

Vern - Ive moved the original station building to the side and extended the platforms so that they could accomodate 9 car Class 390 trainset but since you said the line is not electrified I think I'll just run 10 car MK1 coaches (2x BG, 3x 1st, 1x Restaurant, 4x 2nd). That plus a Class 37 easily fit on any of the platforms now.

ex-railwayman

July 18th, 2007, 10:03 AM

Hi Omber, I think that with the electrification of many new routes within the U.K., I'm sure that given time this area will also see electric trains running daily in a few years time.
I'm glad you've got it on TRS2006 'cos I don't use the others either. :hehe:

I have sent you a personal message to help you along with your little project.

Cheers. ex-railwayman.

rjhowie

July 18th, 2007, 05:49 PM

Hi from Glasgow.

Queen Street Station was an LNER terminal (further back prior to the pre-grouping back in 1922 it was the NBR -North British Railway) as was the suburban low level line now part of the present day Glasgow North Electric system. The Central Station was LMS (prev.Caledonian) and if I recall right St Enoch was LMS (formerly G&SW=Glasgow & South Western), Buchanan Street was LNER.

So far there is nothing moving on electrification at the normal high level although there has been suggestions as the fast Glasgow-Edinburgh shuttle service (every 15 minutes during the day) runs from Queen St and is a kind of flagship line. It maycome yet!

omber

July 19th, 2007, 09:03 PM

Update: I had some time to spend with the route today.

- The track has been relaid.
- All links and irregularities in the track (inverted turnouts) have been fixed.
- Queen Street Terminal has been completly redone.
- Portals at all track ends where aplicable (Greenhil Junction, past Falkrik and West-Glasgow).
- Re-signaled using LMS signals.

What do to next:

- Work out signaling problems so that AI can easily navigate the layout.
- Add interactive functionality to intermidiete stations from Briggs to Falkrik.
- Establish a base AI controlled session that will see DMUs arriving at Queen Street every 5-10 minutes as well as large express trains that run from portals straight to Queen street without stopping at intermidiete stations.

Next:

Begin working on upgrading texturing and scenery.

Upon completition of this project, the route will be remade again this time to the BR: 20 years from now theme.

================================================== =====

Problem: I was attempting to setup the Glasgow-West junction to spitout a 5 car Class 101 DMU set every 10 minutes to go to Queen Street then back out of the portals. THe problem is even though the DMU came out of the Portal, they proceeded at steady 40mph wherever the switch setting would take them and they had no driver. They could not be selected either.

davidbird

July 20th, 2007, 04:38 AM

Omber the the LMS(Lazy, Muddleing and Slow :p(Speed record was 114mph compard to 126mph on LNER!) )did have trains running to Glasglow but whether or not it was to Queen Street Station (the one that your reworking) or another station I'm not sure of. in any case must find more info.

As stated before, trains from London on the LMS ran into Glasgow Central, (ie Royal Scot), while the LNER ran into Queen Street Queen of Scots Pullman. The LNER also ran Buchanan St, and the LMS into St Enoch.
The LMS did operate the Glasglow - Mallig services jointly with LNER - again must confirm details.

The Glasgow-Fort William-Mallaig trains were operated by the LNER, from Queen Street via Crianlarich, Arrochar & Helensburgh. The Glasgow-Oban trains were LMS, from St Enoch, via Striling, Doune & Callendar. After the closure of the Callendar route by Beeching in BR days, the Oban trains were re-routed via Crianlarich, Arrochar & Helensburgh.

I've done a route Glagow-Falkirk, but with Queen Street Station from Hooverman's excellent Ultimate Highlands layout merged onto Vern's Glasgow-Falkirk. A much better start to the route. Never released because of the permission aspect, but if you're interested, I'll send a cdp on to you.

Harry_James_Potter

July 20th, 2007, 09:20 AM

omber

July 25th, 2007, 10:26 PM

Please check first post for Update.

Vern

July 29th, 2007, 01:34 AM

================================================== ===========================================

July 25th 2007, Recieved following reply from Auran:

Hi Lukasz,

You do not need a green light from us, as we did not create the original layout. You will need to contact the original author, Vern, and obtain his written permission to upload any modified version of his layout.

Good Luck

================================================== ===========================================

I'll try to contact Vern in regards to this. If I can get Vern's written permisson to go on with this I'll start a new thread and post more updates very soon.

Permission has been emailed so hopefully we can start to enjoy this updated route very soon. Next stop Edinburgh, eh Omber! :)

omber

July 29th, 2007, 11:06 AM

I'm hard at work now at upgrading scenery around the area. As such I'm looking for more UK trees, bushes, and splines of both. I have all of the stuff made by Corporal Major already. Also I remember seeing splines of "roof ends" for andi06's station roofs but I can't find those, can someone give me the KUID?

ex-railwayman

July 29th, 2007, 11:56 AM

Hello omber, the only roof-end splines I know of, on the DLS, are KUID 122285:3251 by andi06.
Regarding your trees and bushes, there are hundreds of them on the DLS, especially low-poly ones that have been uploaded recently, but your screenshots show that you have some set up on your route already, do you want any more ?? Tree splines cut down on the frame rates somewhat, so just be wary that a lot of low-end PC's may struggle if you have too much "tree spline clutter" installed on your layout. I would suggest you leave it up to individuals as to how much "greenery" they want to have across the whole route and let them put there own on. Just a thought....

Looking good anyway my friend, we are all wanting to see the end product. But don't let me rush you......:hehe:

Cheerz. ex-railwayman. :wave:

omber

July 29th, 2007, 01:32 PM

The trees that are there are original from TRS04, I want something little more detail .. in regads I changed the track to the perchpole and it just destroyed framerate on my machine (Core2 X6800, GeForce 8800 GTX and 2GB RAM) so I'll have to go back to MP-Wood and the variations ...

So yeah back on topic .. most important are bushes and trees but they need to be high quaility

davidbird

July 29th, 2007, 05:59 PM

ex-railwayman

July 29th, 2007, 07:35 PM

Hi David, it's getting a little late and I've only just seen your question, sorry. There is a good link here http://www.haegar-trainz.de.vu/ to haegar's scenery stuff and on the DLS, Jankvis did hundreds of low poly trees and bushes and shrubs and things, do a bit of searching around on these forums for lo-poly and low-poly threads and subsequent posts, there's loads of interesting info. to collate, but it'll take an hour or two for you.

Cheerz. ex-railwayman.

Moojgoo

July 29th, 2007, 09:02 PM

Im on the West coast, no rush - I ran into a problem though..
"
I had a Class 37 pulling a long MK1 stock to the "new" Queen Street terminal but alas the train (AI controlled) ran right through red signal (I guess about 10 coaches is too much for breaking power of this train, specially on the hill just before the tunnel that goes to Queen Street .. at any rate the AI seemed to freeze - I couldnt do anything with that loco and train - it just sild down the tracks at agonizing speed...

See this (http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=12790). It'll easily fix your problem.

omber

August 2nd, 2007, 03:45 AM

trackplate

August 2nd, 2007, 05:28 AM

David, please note that the roof ends for the Station Roof Kit are NOT in the pack. Nor are they listed on DLS which is really annoying because I did have them at some point...

You more than likely still have then Try AJS Gable in your collection under the objects tab if not simply try the word Gable on the DLS there are four of them there from AJS in various sizes
Regards Bob V

Harry_James_Potter

August 2nd, 2007, 06:35 AM

See this (http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=12790). It'll easily fix your problem.

Or, like I mentioned in a previous post, jack the Max_decel value through the roof. I'm now entering 20,000 into the Max_decel line in order to get my heaviest trains to stop before the reds.

I have to do this to every locomotive that I am likely to use on my route as the AI simply doesn't brake in time to stop on the lights...

regards

Harry

omber

August 2nd, 2007, 02:04 PM

You more than likely still have then Try AJS Gable in your collection under the objects tab if not simply try the word Gable on the DLS there are four of them there from AJS in various sizes
Regards Bob V

Trackplate I have downloaded all of andi06's content from DLS. I still dont have them.. I checked disabled content and there is nothing there.

davidbird

August 3rd, 2007, 06:14 AM

Splines of roof ends for Andi06's station roofs are with the packs, see AJS Station Kit - Pack 3 Glazed Roof Components (http://www.auran.com/TRS2004/DLS_packcontents.php?AssetPackID=4730) or AJS Station Roof Kit (http://www.auran.com/TRS2004/DLS_packcontents.php?AssetPackID=10323). Although the roof ends are splines, that is only to allow them to join onto the splines for the roofs themselves. They should not be extended so they repeat...

My mistake, they are not splines, only the glazed roof ends, on a much smaller two-track span, are splines. The gable ends are single objects with spline attachment points for the roof splines.
See here (http://www.auran.com/TRS2004/DLS_viewasset.php?AssetID=85021) or here for the pack (http://www.auran.com/TRS2004/DLS_packcontents.php?AssetPackID=10323) on the DLS.

[edit] Having just looked again at the list of pack contents (2nd link), the first 4 are ends for the "straight" and "glazed" roofs of different sizes. I don't see any ends there for the barrel roofs... and the barrel roof spline doesn't form ends by itself.

omber

August 3rd, 2007, 02:18 PM

My mistake, they are not splines, only the glazed roof ends, on a much smaller two-track span, are splines. The gable ends are single objects with spline attachment points for the roof splines.
See here (http://www.auran.com/TRS2004/DLS_viewasset.php?AssetID=85021) or here for the pack (http://www.auran.com/TRS2004/DLS_packcontents.php?AssetPackID=10323) on the DLS.

[edit] Having just looked again at the list of pack contents (2nd link), the first 4 are ends for the "straight" and "glazed" roofs of different sizes. I don't see any ends there for the barrel roofs... and the barrel roof spline doesn't form ends by itself.

I need those 4 ends, I dont even use the barrel roofs. However the said ends arent even listed in those packs.. its like they're indivisible to me......

davidbird

August 3rd, 2007, 03:17 PM

I need those 4 ends......

Sorry, I don't know how to be any clearer - try these links to the DLS
14.5 m Gable end (http://www.auran.com/TRS2004/DLS_viewasset.php?AssetID=85019)
29 m Gable end (http://www.auran.com/TRS2004/DLS_viewasset.php?AssetID=85020)
43.5 m Gable end (http://www.auran.com/TRS2004/DLS_viewasset.php?AssetID=85021)
58 m Gable end (http://www.auran.com/TRS2004/DLS_viewasset.php?AssetID=85022)

I dont even use the barrel roofs.

As you're not using a barrel roof, and are going to be 4-tracking the route out of the main station, what will you be calling it? I hope you're not going to call it Queen Street Station...